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The Race Place

Entain get a monopoly


pete

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1 hour ago, Hesi said:

I thought it was better that the Maori Party had slipped to 2%.  God forbid if they hold the balance of power

Colonistion  caused all the problems,  yet they wear  colonial  made shirts, shoes and  drive colonial  cars. 

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47 minutes ago, mardigras said:

I don't, outside of it being poorly run and a drain on the taxpayer.

Sometimes you have to take a realistic approach. Rather than me thinking of myself and what suits me - I prefer to think about what is best overall, and in this case, best overall for the country. More racing is great for me. But in this case, it is a poor decision for the country.

One of the issues is that there is no accountability. An organisation aimed at making money would have ditched racing years ago. The cost/benefits including social gains and losses simply don't stack up. 

I don't disagree that things have been poorly managed. Most of where we are now has been self inflicted - and supported by the majority of entities within racing as well. 

Some are just too self-centred, ill-informed or nostalgic - rather than being pragmatic.

There is no accountability  in monopolies? Just look at auckland  airport 

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21 minutes ago, vanturk said:

There is no accountability  in monopolies? Just look at auckland  airport 

I'd call it a government accountability issue. They don't make the recipients sufficiently accountable for the money they dish out.

An entity that was not government run would be accountable to its stakeholder/shareholders even if it was a monopoly. That then should translate into a structure/agreement whereby the various industry elements enter an agreement with that organisation to fund them under some joint venture or profit sharing arrangement, based on the level of revenue the individual racing entity contributes to the overall revenue earned.

In that scenario, NZ gallops could earn a share of profits from a non-government entity based on some agreed profit share of what it contributes to the profits.

As of now, that cannot happen because the industry entities such as NZ gallops don't generate any real profit. And therefore the profit share would be minimal. Hence the government again having to step in, ensure they keep funding an industry that simply generates little to no revenue, by legislating how the racing entities will continue to get money to prop it up.

It's a pretty simple model - but a model based around the government simply shelling out money to an industry that is of little consequence to NZ from an economical viewpoint or social viewpoint.

And those involved as punters/owners/trainers/jockeys/drivers/stablehands generally think that is OK because racing has such history in NZ etc etc.

Edited by mardigras
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2 hours ago, Maximus said:

too many jobs at stake, significant export earner and part of Kiwi DNA, histiry/heirtage

just needs better financial model and management of assets,products services as outlined by Messara Report

 

MM

You've been fed and listened to so much bullshit.

Heritage/history shouldn't even be considered from the perspective of continuance. You don't keep things going that are non-performing because they used to do OK in the 'good ole days'

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31 minutes ago, vanturk said:

Colonistion  caused all the problems,  yet they wear  colonial  made shirts, shoes and  drive colonial  cars. 

The thing that has really being getting up my nose of late, is, and my daughter in law seems to think I am too 'old' in my ways, so I keep my mouth shut

Since when did this country become Aotearoa/NZ

Why is it only ever Waka Kotahi not NZ Transport Agency

Te Whatu Ora never Health NZ

Why has the word family disappeared and everyone refers to whanau

Why do large companies and Govt departments, in written correspondence, only evet greet you and bid you farewell in Maori

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Just now, Hesi said:

The thing that has really being getting up my nose of late, is, and my daughter in law seems to think I am too 'old' in my ways, so I keep my mouth shut

Since when did this country become Aotearoa/NZ

Why is it only ever Waka Kotahi not NZ Transport Agency

Te Whatu Ora never Health NZ

Why has the word family disappeared and everyone refers to whanau

Why do large companies and Govt departments, in written correspondence, only evet greet you and bid you farewell in Maori

I have no problem  with Maori  names or entities.  Some of them do bloody  good work, but you'll never hear of them . What gets me the most though, is how they became  indigenous  people  since 2017?  Always thought  there's only 2 indigenous  races still alive,  the aborigines  and the American  Indians? 

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Going slightly off script but a view of our current plight in this country.

Since 1984 under the banner of "internationally admired economic reform" ( a euphemism for unadulterated neoliberalism) we have been forced fed deregulation, privatisation, corporatisation, downsizing, re-engineering, decentralisation, outsourcing,free trade(or unregulated international commerce), employment contracts, immigration (to inject vibrancy and dynamism, investment openness and so on, all of which have got NZ nowhere.  Hence the grim situation of the moment right now.

Those who believe a change of Govt will break the deadlock could not be more wrong.  Irrespective of whichever party or parties are in power ,the political will to implement the changes needed to reverse our decline does not appear to exist.

Yet even if it did ,we face two major impediments to economic and social progress. First, the prescriptions required. Prescriptions which have been proven in nation after nation, including our own in the past, invariably challenge deep set beliefs and violate cast iron ideological convictions.

Secondly, a large swathe of the population appears satisfied with the status quo simply because it has not known life differently.  To many NZ,ers ,way to many, success in International Sport provides confirmation that despite our sinking status ,"we're doing all right ", as one blinkered commentator recently put it.

With kind of mindset all prospects of economic decline will simply continue.

We will eventually become like Argentina, an immigrant nation of recent settlement with a highly diverse ,vibrant and well educated population of 45 million ,over half of which live below the poverty line.

Frankly I think racings problems pall into insignificance when taken into context with our current economic situation generally. Anyway enough doom and gloom , off to watch trots at Alex Park tonight to cheer up.

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3 hours ago, vanturk said:

Colonistion  caused all the problems,  yet they wear  colonial  made shirts, shoes and  drive colonial  cars. 

The current Foreign Affairs minister is the most pro colonial mouthpiece of all time. Any command for a statement from UK or USA is immediately actioned.

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On 5/25/2023 at 4:13 PM, Hesi said:

Entain have done the decent thing and agreed to a 2 year moratorium on staff redundancies, but after that there will be major streamlining of the operation in NZ, which was always the issue, excessive costs

Believe it or not there are probably one or two TAB staff Entain may want to keep. However its highly unlikely they will have the other staff twiddling their thumbs for 2 years. I can see them working on other Entain overseas brands which are illegal in NZ or geo blocked. 

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3 hours ago, Hesi said:

The thing that has really being getting up my nose of late, is, and my daughter in law seems to think I am too 'old' in my ways, so I keep my mouth shut

Since when did this country become Aotearoa/NZ

Why is it only ever Waka Kotahi not NZ Transport Agency

Te Whatu Ora never Health NZ

Why has the word family disappeared and everyone refers to whanau

Why do large companies and Govt departments, in written correspondence, only evet greet you and bid you farewell in Maori

I think your daughter in law is right!

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6 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

On the Harness discussion. I will put you in Max. Two misses already but I have extended to 3 misses as only 5 of us.

very kind of you Rees, not that it 'll make any diff cos Max is a goneburger with 0 from 3 LOL

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22 hours ago, mardigras said:

The entire NZ Racing industry. The breeding industry can carry on without racing. This is just the government further endorsing another way of delivering a handout to NZ Racing. But for what purpose. NZ Racing is a bit player in NZ that simply does not justify the tax payer support from government.

Under the new deal, the majority of the money to the racing industry is still going to come from revenues generated outside of NZ racing - yet gifted to them.

I am a massive racing fan - but not to the detriment to the country as a whole.

At least the taxpayer is not the group that will be subsiding the industry, this time.

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22 minutes ago, curious said:

As far as I can see, the taxpayer will continue to subsidise the industry as they have been won't they?

No, Gumment out, hence the sale ... *we are out of here* .... Sure the MPs are still celebrating offloading a Department, my words, run incompetently for the last 15 years.

Big win for Gumment, liability gone

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2 hours ago, Freda said:

At least the taxpayer is not the group that will be subsiding the industry, this time.

 

40 minutes ago, curious said:

As far as I can see, the taxpayer will continue to subsidise the industry as they have been won't they?

I agree - the TAB is still a statutory body - and the funds are still simply legislated to be directed to the industry (albeit with a 3rd party entitled to something based on the finer details of the agreement)

Additionally, if the NZ racing industry didn't exist and the government put in the same agreement with Entain, the government would simply become the holder of the funds.

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20 minutes ago, Turny said:

No, Gumment out, hence the sale ... *we are out of here* .... Sure the MPs are still celebrating offloading a Department, my words, run incompetently for the last 15 years.

Big win for Gumment, liability gone

I haven't read that tabnz.org is no longer - can you point me to where that is the case?

Are you suggesting that this has gone? I seriously doubt it.

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Mardi, I am referring solely to ownership transer .. Gumment to Entain ... and with the transfer, Entains purchase, Gumments future liability gone from hundreds of millions to zero.

Smartest thing this Gumment has done for some time and as a taxpayer I applaud them

 

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23 minutes ago, Turny said:

Mardi, I am referring solely to ownership transer .. Gumment to Entain ... and with the transfer, Entains purchase, Gumments future liability gone from hundreds of millions to zero.

Smartest thing this Gumment has done for some time and as a taxpayer I applaud them

 

There hasn't been an ownership transfer. 

it is very simple.

Currently

The government body receives funds. Under the Act, the government body is required to distribute those funds - (primarily) to the racing industry.

Under the deal with Entain.

The government body has done a commercial deal with Entain. Entain will be providing the government body with funds. Under the Act, the government body is required to distribute those funds - to the racing industry.

It makes no difference how the funds come about, or who is managing the collection of those funds. All funds by way of whatever agreements that come to the government body, are government funds. The government is simply legislating that those funds go to the racing industry. It's government money. Therefore, being government money, it could be distributed elsewhere by simply changing the legislation.

The vast majority of those funds are not related to the NZ Racing industry. Which means the government is still subsidising the Racing Industry because they choose to not direct those non NZ Racing based funds elsewhere - rather, they continue to gift them to the racing industry.

If the NZ Racing industry were the generator of the funds to the government body, you could suggest they should be entitled to receive them. As without the industry, the money wouldn't flow into the government body. But that is not the case. NZ Racing would be highly unlikely to be generating 10% of the funding it receives. A subsidy. A government subsidy, therefore tax-payer subsidy.

Edited by mardigras
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Mardi, you are simply missing my point, it really is simple .. the Government no longer owns the TAB having sold their 100% interest. They no longer have a potential future liability, the new owner does .. maybe, as they could uplift tent and walk.

Government has an ongong liability to distribute funds IF they receive any from the new Owner, Entain.

There are 2 separate issues here.

My delight is in the Government walking away from the fiasco and incompetence within we have all witnessed for many years ... meantime Vic and NSW booming. 

Oh dear how sad, never mind

Edited by Turny
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6 minutes ago, Turny said:

Mardi, you are simply missing my point, it really is simple .. the Government no longer owns the TAB having sold their 100% interest. They no longer have a potential future liability, the new owner does .. maybe, as they could uplift tent and walk.

Show me where that is the case. You are suggesting that the Racing Act no longer exists and that the government body enacted through the Racing Act - has been legislated out.

Just a simple article showing the government to no longer be the controlling body would be good. Not an article that shows Entain to have operational control of the TAB. They are not the same thing.

The TAB operation is not the government body. It is the vehicle used to generate the funds for the government body. Entain is to be running the TAB. That is running the vehicle that the government body uses to generate funds.

So I'd suggest it is probably you that is missing the point. In 10 years time, if the funds through the Entain model are not managing to keep the racing industry going- who do you think will be required to prop them up again? It won't be Entain.

Edited by mardigras
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