Freda Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Okay...at the risk of being tiresome - I presume Tabcorp takes sports betting too? Does that go 'into the pot' or is it kept to its own pools to distribute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, Freda said: Okay...at the risk of being tiresome - I presume Tabcorp takes sports betting too? Does that go 'into the pot' or is it kept to its own pools to distribute? They pay sports organisation fees (but not the same way NZ does). Tabcorp has commercial relationships with other parties such as the racing codes, but they are essentially a commercial operator trying to make money from the avenues they are involved in. So revenue from sports betting would only end up with racing bodies by agreement with the various racing organisations. Without knowing the specifics of those agreements, I doubt racing gets anything, just like they don't get anything from the massive revenues from pokies through Tabcorp. Although racing clubs may hold their own such facilities, that revenue isn't part of the Vic Racing distribution to the three codes. So the 'pot' from sports betting is likely the shareholders of Tabcorp. They compete for that with all other sports betting parties and have no exclusive right to sports betting (as opposed to tote betting (which they do hold exclusive rights). And revenue earned by Tabcorp from NZ racing will also be subject to their commercial agreements, but the relative revenues from NZ racing compared to Australian racing by Tabcorp is miniscule. Whereas in NZ, off-shore revenues in NZ eclipse local revenues. i.e we need to secure the revenue from off-shore racing to survive, off-shore entities don't need any revenue from NZ racing (and it could well be that the Oz racing industry doesn't get any of that NZ based revenue anyway). We don't get the revenue because we have removed all interest in our own racing. We lose 1/4th or 1/5th of the amount an average Australian does through betting. Yet we keep getting compared to them as to why we don't have stakes like they do. Instead of doing everything possible to make NZ racing the focus - so that the revenue provided to NZ racing is from NZ racing, they shifted the model to one which was to obtain funds from anywhere and forget about where they come from, and give it to racing. It would be like having a restaurant industry but no one turning up to eat. Give them all the funds from some government run pokies, and let them carry on opening their doors even though no one comes in. That's where we are now with NZ racing. We keep gifting money for them to stay open, but very few people turn up at the betting shop to fund it. You don't keep putting in billions of dollars into a mine, if the mine has no resources left even though plenty of people go along each day to work at the mine. You scale the mining operation back to the level of where it fits. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Add to this the same scenario of clubs like Ellerslie gifting money to stakes to keep them at an artificially high level.......what is the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, mardigras said: They pay sports organisation fees (but not the same way NZ does). Tabcorp has commercial relationships with other parties such as the racing codes, but they are essentially a commercial operator trying to make money from the avenues they are involved in. So revenue from sports betting would only end up with racing bodies by agreement with the various racing organisations. Without knowing the specifics of those agreements, I doubt racing gets anything, just like they don't get anything from the massive revenues from pokies through Tabcorp. Although racing clubs may hold their own such facilities, that revenue isn't part of the Vic Racing distribution to the three codes. So the 'pot' from sports betting is likely the shareholders of Tabcorp. They compete for that with all other sports betting parties and have no exclusive right to sports betting (as opposed to tote betting (which they do hold exclusive rights). And revenue earned by Tabcorp from NZ racing will also be subject to their commercial agreements, but the relative revenues from NZ racing compared to Australian racing by Tabcorp is miniscule. Whereas in NZ, off-shore revenues in NZ eclipse local revenues. i.e we need to secure the revenue from off-shore racing to survive, off-shore entities don't need any revenue from NZ racing (and it could well be that the Oz racing industry doesn't get any of that NZ based revenue anyway). We don't get the revenue because we have removed all interest in our own racing. We lose 1/4th or 1/5th of the amount an average Australian does through betting. Yet we keep getting compared to them as to why we don't have stakes like they do. Instead of doing everything possible to make NZ racing the focus - so that the revenue provided to NZ racing is from NZ racing, they shifted the model to one which was to obtain funds from anywhere and forget about where they come from, and give it to racing. It would be like having a restaurant industry but no one turning up to eat. Give them all the funds from some government run pokies, and let them carry on opening their doors even though no one comes in. That's where we are now with NZ racing. We keep gifting money for them to stay open, but very few people turn up at the betting shop to fund it. You don't keep putting in billions of dollars into a mine, if the mine has no resources left even though plenty of people go along each day to work at the mine. You scale the mining operation back to the level of where it fits. That's very comprehensive, thanks. I don't think there is anything else I need to ask, I'm very grateful to you for taking the time to be so explicit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Which makes it all the more frustrating when I get told loudly that ' turnover is going gangbusters, Tab gets 80% of turnover, there will be plenty for stakes increases ' .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Freda said: Which makes it all the more frustrating when I get told loudly that ' turnover is going gangbusters, Tab gets 80% of turnover, there will be plenty for stakes increases ' .... Who's telling you that - and where are they getting their info from? TAB net revenue is less than 6% of turnover (and getting lower most years). As more betting goes towards fixed odds, their margins are at risk. They could do well, and they could do poorly. To pay the stake for a $10k race on average requires $170k turnover. For a $100k race, $1.7m turnover. I don't think there there are many (if any) races in NZ doing $1.7m turnover. Most are around the $100k - $150k mark - enough for a $5k stake. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, mardigras said: Who's telling you that - and where are they getting their info from? TAB net revenue is less than 6% of turnover (and getting lower most years). As more betting goes towards fixed odds, their margins are at risk. They could do well, and they could do poorly. To pay the stake for a $10k race on average requires $170k turnover. For a $100k race, $1.7m turnover. I don't think there there are many (if any) races in NZ doing $1.7m turnover. Most are around the $100k - $150k mark - enough for a $5k stake. Michael Pitman - and presumably our management ( or some of it ) shares the same notions. Edited September 1, 2020 by Freda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Freda said: Which makes it all the more frustrating when I get told loudly that ' turnover is going gangbusters, Tab gets 80% of turnover, there will be plenty for stakes increases ' .... ??? TAB gets approx 20% of tote turnover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 If things are going so well, why does NZTR, not release weekly bulletins on turnover on each meeting and cumulative turnover, like they used to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 As I recall, turnovers used to be published at the end of every raceday - in the newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Freda said: As I recall, turnovers used to be published at the end of every raceday - in the newspaper. On a Sat evening in the 8 O'Clock newspaper, there used to be a competition around the last few digits 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Hesi said: On a Sat evening in the 8 O'Clock newspaper, there used to be a competition around the last few digits Now there's a trip down memory lane. I worked on that paper before I got the DCBM. Sports clubs used to sell tickets based on the last 3 numbers of the total turnover. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Pete, you would also remember the Auckland Star broadsheet newspaper, that on the big racing days, used to have 4-6 pages of detailed form and comment on every horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Worked on Star as well. Dennis Ryan was there at the same time in the racing department which was quite sizeable in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hesi said: Pete, you would also remember the Auckland Star broadsheet newspaper, that on the big racing days, used to have 4-6 pages of detailed form and comment on every horse I remember the selection panel used to have around 8 different selectors. I always used to follow the Matamata Trackman who I think was Ross Fisher in those days. He used to be on the sports show on ZB on Saturday mornings. Threw out heaps of winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 They must have all had a great time, and got paid for it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 The only time I got one of the perks was when I was working for the Taranaki Herald and got sent to Hawera for the day to phone in the results. Watching the races, drinking free beer and free lunch whilst getting paid. Happy days.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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