mardigras Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 minute ago, ABB said: Hands. Reading the race both his and the others around him Taking the right options more often than the other do. Maybe as a betting proposition he is over backed but from an owner/trainer position and you had a horse you thought was decent he would be most trainers first option. That's fine as that is your opinion. But can you explain why it is that for 990 comparisons between a horse he rode, that another rider also rode (same track, track condition, distance), across all of those rides, he rode the horse to a time of 0.2 seconds slower than the other rider on average. Of course some races will be run slower etc, but you'd also expect that to even out across a large number of comparisons. For someone with such great hands, making such great decisions, being a superior rider, I find it pretty odd that this would be the case. He must have been bloody unfortunate to find himself in so many slowly run races - yet still couldn't work out that was the case and decide to do something about it. There is nothing insignificant about 0.2 seconds - on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Trader Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, mardigras said: I thought you said he was the best, not just better than Chris Dell. Is he better than Chris Dell or not? What does your analysis tell you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Trader Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, ABB said: Hands. Reading the race both his and the others around him Taking the right options more often than the other do. Maybe as a betting proposition he is over backed but from an owner/trainer position and you had a horse you thought was decent he would be most trainers first option. Aaron, please remember most trainers have no idea according to mardigras. What they do won't affect the horses performance. If a horse can run it will run regardless of who is training it and who is riding it. I guess thats why despite claiming to be a professional punter who wins year on year is still having to work for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, London Trader said: Is he better than Chris Dell or not? What does your analysis tell you? My analysis doesn't rate jockeys - I ignore them. If I thought they were a factor worth considering, then I would try and assess them so as to work out their impact. I'd love to hear how you would have determined the chance of Te Akau Shark in a race with Bosson on, versus the chance of Te Akau Shark with Dell on. What's the impact to chance going to be. Surely that is what you are suggesting. Bosson is going to have a higher chance than Dell (given Bosson would be sought out in order to win). if you thought Te Akau Shark was a 50% chance with Bosson on, what chance with Dell on? Please answer that. Is he better than Dell. Probably. Difficult to do any objective comparison given the opportunities afforded each rider are so very different. So any comparison will likely end up being largely subjective. They have ridden the same horse over the track/distance/condition combination. Dell was ahead on times for those comparisons from my data - but that consists of 3 occurrences - and they are all a long time ago. But he certainly didn't seem to be incapable of riding the individuals any different than Bosson Do I think he would make a difference to the result. Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, London Trader said: Aaron, please remember most trainers have no idea according to mardigras. What they do won't affect the horses performance. If a horse can run it will run regardless of who is training it and who is riding it. I guess thats why despite claiming to be a professional punter who wins year on year is still having to work for a living. Where have I stated that trainers have no idea? Are you saying a person can't work and punt professionally? I do work, part time, no doubt. Have for about 3 years now. it's called keeping one's brain active after 15 years of not doing so. What has that got to do with the discussion? Maybe you are disputing that I make money from betting. If so, just say so. Clearly you think that has a bearing on this discussion, although I haven't a clue what it is. Seems you don't like people having an opinion that differs from yours. Diddums. Get over it. Edited January 9, 2021 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 Bosson appeal unofficially unsuccessful, no KM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 As it should be then. Irrespective of this rather unproductive discussion ( ! ) about his relative merits, at least we see a degree of impartiality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Be interesting to see what they argued should mitigate the penalty. It looked pretty robust to me based on precedent etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, curious said: Be interesting to see what they argued should mitigate the penalty. It looked pretty robust to me based on precedent etc. It would be. I don't think any argument about the level of races being missed should have any bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 Star Kiwi jockey Opie Bosson will likely miss this month’s Karaka Million, after an appeal against careless riding charges was unsuccessful. The 40-year-old was hit with two suspensions for careless riding at Ellerslie on New Year's Day. Sunday's marathon hearing went nearly three hours, before Bosson's plea was rejected. He will miss out on an opportunity to record his fifth consecutive win at New Zealand's richest race on January 23. Missing the race could cost Bosson $50,000 in prizemoney and he can’t return to action until the Wellington Cup on January 30. A "gutted" Bosson believes another appeal is still possible, but hasn’t decided whether to pursue that option. "I'm a bit disappointed that I won't be there for the big night, but I'll be back bigger and stronger for next year," he tells Newshub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 Does anyone have the JCA decision, or is it not available yet. Not on their website yet No point speculating on why the appeal was rejected, until one can view the detail of the hearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Mr Molloy on RC says they filed for a judicial review last night and Opie will be riding on the day. Make what you will of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 Te Akau will bully everyone with their money, until they get what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 47 minutes ago, pete said: Mr Molloy on RC says they filed for a judicial review last night and Opie will be riding on the day. Make what you will of that. If that is the case, then it is further highlighting the reasons why NZ racing is going down the toilet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 Yes, and every small time player in the industry should be concerned with this 'what Te Akau wants, Te Akau gets' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngakonui grass Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, Hesi said: Yes, and every small time player in the industry should be concerned with this 'what Te Akau wants, Te Akau gets' Another example of how the socalled ''Sport of Kings''' is really becoming ''The Sport of Kings'' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 hour ago, mardigras said: If that is the case, then it is further highlighting the reasons why NZ racing is going down the toilet. And I'm not concerned with the process, but if he is appealing the appeal decision, why can't it simply be heard well before the dates he wants to ride. As for appealing against an appeal decision, I think some think this happens all the time in Oz. I'd say it is rare. I believe they would have to appeal the racing tribunal decision to VCAT in the case of Victorian decisions. Also, imo, they should have a rule where a frivolous appeal is subject to a severe increase in penalty due to wasting time. This is frivolous as it is being done solely to delay the period, not because the period is unjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 I think what is also of concern, while it is in Bosson's name, it is not him that is appealing for reasons of being incorrectly penalized, it is Te Akau that are appealing in order to get what they believe is the best jockey for races worth a lot of money At least it is in good hands, Hon Lyn Steven's QC, CNZM. If there is no integrity there, might as well give it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 ATTENTION. HE ISNT THE BEST JOCKEY ,TE AKAU. Havnt you been reading the posts on here you clowns. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 The conclusion of the Tribunal is that the Appeals must be dismissed and the decisions of the Raceday Judicial Committee in respect of both Races 3 and 4 upheld. The detailed "reasons for decision" spoken of above will be available before the close of business on 15 January 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 Full transcript on JCA website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 http://jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/appeal-o-bosson-v-riu-reasons-decision-of-appeals-tribunal-dated-12-january-2021-chair-mr-m-mckechnie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I do not see how it would be 'fair and just' for Mr Bosson to have his raceday suspension period reduced. Te Akau should simply contract another senior rider or riders. The impartiality of the JCA would be clearly compromised if the 'impassioned plea' of David Ellis and the letters of support from Wilcox and Lindsay (and the BGP, of all things!) proved to be sufficient to overturn this decision. MM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 Shonky I see counsel for Bosson turned up unaware of the race day inquiry report and was reprimanded 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 26 minutes ago, Maximus said: I do not see how it would be 'fair and just' for Mr Bosson to have his raceday suspension period reduced. Te Akau should simply contract another senior rider or riders. The impartiality of the JCA would be clearly compromised if the 'impassioned plea' of David Ellis and the letters of support from Wilcox and Lindsay (and the BGP, of all things!) proved to be sufficient to overturn this decision. MM They were missing an impassioned plea from Molly and RC, the cleaner at Ellerslie, and Emily's long lost aunty.....well that is what it is coming to, a circus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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