Harness Racing

[Rusty]

3 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The stipes report will be a novel for today's meeting.

A novel indeed. 

It seemed there were plenty of questions, or I should say, one question being asked on multiple occasions, regarding "improved performance." 

What's the angle the stipes are coming from here? What are they thinking the answers may be, what do they expect the drivers/trainers to say?

But more importantly, there never seems to be any supplementary, or follow up questioning, and why ask the question at all? It appears it is just a box ticking exercise, as often the answers are fairly vague and disingenuous. 

Here's a tip for the standard answer, and no further questions will be asked: 

"Sir, I'm buggered if I know really, argh, been working well at home, tinkered around with the shoeing, and haven't had much luck recently. Oh and um, also went alrite here before." 

Now I don't know if any of that response would be in relation to the horse or the driver/trainer, but it seems to stop the stipes from scratching the surface any deeper, and they just go on to the next person. 

[Addington]

9 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

That is true but they can speak carefully and constructively about issues in harness but they don't. They ignore it all so I have little respect for what they do on the Box Seat.

Very good points and can i add both are compromised being on multiple industry  payrolls.

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Addington said:

Very good points and can i add both are compromised being on multiple industry  payrolls.

Sponsored by.......😂

[Happy Sunrise]

8 hours ago, Rusty said:

A novel indeed. 

No mention of the starter's poor performance in Race 4. Even Lamb used to get censured on occasion.

8 hours ago, Rusty said:

"Sir, I'm buggered if I know really, argh, been working well at home, tinkered around with the shoeing, and haven't had much luck recently. Oh and um, also went alrite here before." 

You forgot has gone well on the grass before.

8 hours ago, Rusty said:

 

But more importantly, there never seems to be any supplementary, or follow up questioning, and why ask the question at all? It appears it is just a box ticking exercise, as often the answers are fairly vague and disingenuous. 

I thought you had changed subject completely and were talking about the Box Seat.

They are never going to investigate as they have to get home after a long day. Anyway, people's memories are very very short and most do not read stipes reports anyway.

[Addington]

39 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Sponsored by.......😂

Certainly not the TAB, or as he put it , they have sacked me twice

[karrotsishere]

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The way you are going you might be the leading character in the next bible that is written.

😂 Surely Im only the supporting act tho.

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The old boys on here like that sort of thing...

Yeah but I didn't get that reaction when I said something of similar nature instead got a "Im apparently much more fun when drinking - so Im told". 

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Can't say much more about it.

They do, instead of having their heads in the sand at the beach.

But you have already said that "everything is magical at the beach". 

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Did I though?

Lol, yes less than 3 weeks ago. 

[karrotsishere]

13 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

 In what circumstances can that occur? The powers that be will pay no attention to it all and just allow everyone to forget about it as they always do.

Just ring HRNZ the number is on their website & tell them your feedback & share with us what they say 😃

[karrotsishere]

9 hours ago, Rusty said:

It seemed there were plenty of questions, or I should say, one question being asked on multiple occasions, regarding "improved performance." 

What's the angle the stipes are coming from here? What are they thinking the answers may be, what do they expect the drivers/trainers to say?

A tip for you too Rusty, just ring up & ask them & give us the feedback 😃

[Happy Sunrise]

4 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Lol, yes less than 3 weeks ago. 

Fair cop. I couldn't remember. Too much 50 shades of grey and my memory gets all fuzzy.

[karrotsishere]

Just now, Happy Sunrise said:

Fair cop. I couldn't remember. Too much 50 shades of grey and my memory gets all fuzzy.

Was actually going to mention the word alzheimer's starting lol. But chose not to. 

 

[Happy Sunrise]

24 minutes ago, Addington said:

Certainly not the TAB, or as he put it , they have sacked me twice

They should almost label the Box Seat with 'sponsored content'

[Happy Sunrise]

1 minute ago, karrotsishere said:

Was actually going to mention the word alzheimer's starting lol. But chose not to. 

 

better than mentioning my testosterone levels 😂

[Lightning Blue]

12 hours ago, Rusty said:

It seemed there were plenty of questions, or I should say, one question being asked on multiple occasions, regarding "improved performance." 

What's the angle the stipes are coming from here? What are they thinking the answers may be, what do they expect the drivers/trainers to say?

But more importantly, there never seems to be any supplementary, or follow up questioning, and why ask the question at all? It appears it is just a box ticking exercise, as often the answers are fairly vague and disingenuous. 

Here's a tip for the standard answer, and no further questions will be asked: 

"Sir, I'm buggered if I know really, argh, been working well at home, tinkered around with the shoeing, and haven't had much luck recently. Oh and um, also went alrite here before." 

Now I don't know if any of that response would be in relation to the horse or the driver/trainer, but it seems to stop the stipes from scratching the surface any deeper, and they just go on to the next person. 

More accurate than what you make out.   Why shouldn't Stipes believe these answers from the horse-people about Improved Performance ??? 

They (stipes) asked the question . You gave some great examples of answers given too . Can't see a problem with this process. They (stipes) are NOT gunna say "What a lot of crap !! you must of done this and that (and be guessing) to 'Improve the horse.

Of course Horse-people are ALWAYS TRYING TO IMPROVE THEIR HORSE . tinker with shoeing = yes, work differently at home = yes, feed and treat differently = yes, swim and other excercise changes = yes, linaments and lotions = yes. Happens every day with every Horse in some stables. Looking for Improvement = YES.

Why are some surprised when they actually see some improvement? . It's a good thing .

[Rusty]

50 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

Why shouldn't Stipes believe these answers from the horse-people about Improved Performance ???

There is a difference between believing and suspecting. Like a lot of things, it comes down to evidence and also standard of proof. Don't get me wrong. I suspect the vast majority of horse people are telling the truth. 

52 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

They (stipes) are NOT gunna say "What a lot of crap !! you must of done this and that (and be guessing) to 'Improve the horse.

They certainly won't say it in the stipes room with non-stipes present. But I can almost guarantee that what some think, and what they say are sometimes two different things. 

[Double R]

52 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

More accurate than what you make out.   Why shouldn't Stipes believe these answers from the horse-people about Improved Performance ??? 

They (stipes) asked the question . You gave some great examples of answers given too . Can't see a problem with this process. They (stipes) are NOT gunna say "What a lot of crap !! you must of done this and that (and be guessing) to 'Improve the horse.

Of course Horse-people are ALWAYS TRYING TO IMPROVE THEIR HORSE . tinker with shoeing = yes, work differently at home = yes, feed and treat differently = yes, swim and other excercise changes = yes, linaments and lotions = yes. Happens every day with every Horse in some stables. Looking for Improvement = YES.

Why are some surprised when they actually see some improvement? . It's a good thing .

You and I both know LB, that there is sometimes more time spent in a stable on a horse that has got issues, or you are looking to improve, and give them the best chance to perform to their maximum, than one that doesn't have as many little issues. I am talking about a general health, and accepted horse care management.

[Globederby19]

Lets face it, the stipes are just one of the checks and balances to stop outright rort, of which any one in the racing game Harness or TB,s are aware of. Push the boundary's as far as you can within the parameters given and push further if it isn't detected. 

[Happy Sunrise]

Greg O'Connor talks about the abandoned race on the Box Seat but doesn't go anywhere near the crux of the issue which is - do drivers have the right to stop racing because they think it should be. 

For me, the ones who were affected should pull up for safety reasons but those unaffected should keep racing. If the field goes down to 5 or 6 during a race so be it.

Clearly, the stipes and clerk of the course have no simple method to call off a race so drivers should keep racing until notified.

[Addington]

38 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Greg O'Connor talks about the abandoned race on the Box Seat but doesn't go anywhere near the crux of the issue which is

You sound surprised. He never rocks the boat on TV especially Box Seat. He would not want to upset other harness participants  he has to deal with currently or in future in his others positions

I always thought only the Stewards could call a race abandoned, post event.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Addington

[Lightning Blue]

2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Greg O'Connor talks about the abandoned race on the Box Seat but doesn't go anywhere near the crux of the issue which is - do drivers have the right to stop racing because they think it should be. 

For me, the ones who were affected should pull up for safety reasons but those unaffected should keep racing. If the field goes down to 5 or 6 during a race so be it.

Clearly, the stipes and clerk of the course have no simple method to call off a race so drivers should keep racing until notified

You set off in a race to win it. You wouldn't pull out of a race until the stewards directions tell you to do so. We have bright red flashing lights on outside fence at the stewards points around the course , which instantly catch a drivers attention to abandon race and watch for a hazard. (driverless / or fallen horse or whatever)  

Those large NZ tracks and grass track racing certainly have no easy method like that like you say. In Tassie once a driverless horse doubled back the wrong way towards the field and there was a very nasty incident.

You certainly Need some way of letting drivers know.!! The size of the NZ tracks does make it very tricky indeed. Those huge grass tracks .

Abandonment Indicators' at the Stewards points (who would be the one's consulting through audio hook-up would seem the only solution possible). they have flags in Steeples to abandon fences if hazard there , etc. 

[Double R]

35 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

You set off in a race to win it. You wouldn't pull out of a race until the stewards directions tell you to do so. We have bright red flashing lights on outside fence at the stewards points around the course , which instantly catch a drivers attention to abandon race and watch for a hazard. (driverless / or fallen horse or whatever)  

Those large NZ tracks and grass track racing certainly have no easy method like that like you say. In Tassie once a driverless horse doubled back the wrong way towards the field and there was a very nasty incident.

You certainly Need some way of letting drivers know.!! The size of the NZ tracks does make it very tricky indeed. Those huge grass tracks .

Abandonment Indicators' at the Stewards points (who would be the one's consulting through audio hook-up would seem the only solution possible). they have flags in Steeples to abandon fences if hazard there , etc. 

Agree LB.

"In the old days" horses would be directed around the fallen horse, by the crash crew, with the clerk of the course warning the drivers in advance. Now days the pylons can be removed to give extra room for horses to pass, if needed too. If a horse has crashed to the ground, in general, it will not attempted to get up until encouraged to do so, and by applying a pressure to its neck, will assist it to resist on getting up, until the coast is clear.

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, Double R said:

Agree LB.

"In the old days" horses would be directed around the fallen horse, by the crash crew, with the clerk of the course warning the drivers in advance. Now days the pylons can be removed to give extra room for horses to pass, if needed too. If a horse has crashed to the ground, in general, it will not attempted to get up until encouraged to do so, and by applying a pressure to its neck, will assist it to resist on getting up, until the coast is clear.

Yes , they often went around the fallen horses at Harold Park or Albion Park in my day .

Bet you remember that big crash in the NZ Derby 1984 at Addington, when Richard Brosnan's horse 'Liquid Lightning' jumped the winning post shadow and brought down 9 runners. Bob Mitchell actually held on to a driverless horse for much of the contest and they (the remaining 5 runners) swung very wide around the fallen horses twice. was quite Chaotic to say the least. Bob let the driverless horse go eventually so he could get 3rd place with 'Paleface Tryax.'

Charlie Hunter was a bit bruised and battered but still walked himself into ambulance so not terrible at least, and was the worst hit driver, the rest escaped injury thankfully. 'Royden Glen' got to his feet last some 10 minutes later , finally untangled. Didn't stop him going on a Un-deated 12 win run as a four yearold later in year (including Auckland Cup.) so all's well that end's well. Near put me off wanting to do race driving though lol.