High Flying Harry

[karrotsishere]

Thought would do a recap. This is ALL from public made info.

1. A driver on final ever drive over-used whip, was issued a $500 fine. (More than drive fee).

2. Have an assistant starter that admitted betting on husbands account, without his knowledge. Placing bets on Cup Week. Which is against the rules. No fine was given. 

3. We have a stripes report that states as evidence re still pix & video footage shows, driver had ample opportunity to move out from the 600m - 300m. No fine was given. 

4. We have RIB scratching a horse. A betting plunge was publicly noticed. We have 2 news outlets report a needle was found & a trainer was helping with enquiry. We have a trainer state publicly via social media they were there & had spoken to RIB, but were not themselves under investigation & their horse was allowed to start. Then we have a racing news outlet say RIB most likely won't be pressing charges as a witness has removed statement. (if last sentence is correct no fine will be given). 

Edited December 30, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Rusty]

29 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Thought would do a recap. This is ALL from public made info.

1. A driver on final ever drive over-used whip, was issued a $500 fine. (More than drive fee).

2. Have an assistant starter that admitted betting on husbands account, without his knowledge. Placing bets on Cup Week. Which is against the rules. No fine was given. 

3. We have a stripes report that states as evidence re still pix & video footage shows, driver had ample opportunity to move out from the 600m - 300m. No fine was given. 

4. We have RIB scratching a horse. A betting plunge was publicly noticed. We have 2 news outlets report a needle was found & a trainer was helping with enquiry. We have a trainer state publicly via social media they were there & had spoken to RIB, but were not themselves under investigation & their horse was allowed to start. Then we have a racing news outlet say RIB most likely won't be pressing charges as a witness has removed statement. (if last sentence is correct no fine will be given). 

Good recap.

This goes some way, in a small part at least, to explain why many people are disenchanted with many aspects within the sport at the moment. 

[Double R]

11 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Good recap.

This goes some way, in a small part at least, to explain why many people are disenchanted with many aspects within the sport at the moment. 

I switched the TV on this morning I saw the last five minutes of the Box Seat.

Michael Guerin had a very easy solution for people who were disenchanted with aspects of racing, and that was leave. He was talking about the Auckland Trotting Club, and how some of the members had got figures together, which he didn't say were incorrect, and had circulating them before going to a meeting, and how that was bad to do that. He said if they are not happy they should leave. He then went onto talk about the club had a least completed the apartments, and some of the hole left in big deficit funds would be filled by selling some land, and the club will be fine. Time will tell!!!

[Happy Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

It would be interesting and I believe more comprehendible if the arguments in these sort of cases were published. After all, we are meant to be in a new realm of Perestroika or openness. To my eye at least, that sort of drive, to anybody with any knowledge, is pretty indefensible.

Unlike Rusty,  I think it will be written up and published. If they write up whip charges then they will write this up.

Going to be a good read and will set a precedent.

[karrotsishere]

30 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Good recap.

This goes some way, in a small part at least, to explain why many people are disenchanted with many aspects within the sport at the moment. 

Do you think the punter who put $2k on the nose for High Flying Harry Day 1 is 1 of them?

[karrotsishere]

9 minutes ago, Double R said:

I switched the TV on this morning I saw the last five minutes of the Box Seat.

Michael Guerin had a very easy solution for people who were disenchanted with aspects of racing, and that was leave. He was talking about the Auckland Trotting Club, and how some of the members had got figures together, which he didn't say were incorrect, and had circulating them before going to a meeting, and how that was bad to do that. He said if they are not happy they should leave. He then went onto talk about the club had a least completed the apartments, and some of the hole left in big deficit funds would be filled by selling some land, and the club will be fine. Time will tell!!!

Yeah saw that. And agree with Guerin.

It was hard to know who he was talking about exactly as a journo had covered the Auckland case in media - Harness Link. 

Rusty has a point as thing is, Iv decided will only race Sweetie Lewey (who is well atm 😄) then that be it.

Good luck tonight with your fella DR. 

[Rusty]

12 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Unlike Rusty,  I think it will be written up and published. If they write up whip charges then they will write this up.

Going to be a good read and will set a precedent.

I hope you're right mate. 

Have to keep our eyes peeled! 

[Double R]

1 minute ago, karrotsishere said:

Yeah saw that. And agree with Guerin.

It was hard to know who he was talking about exactly as a journo had covered the Auckland case in media - Harness Link. 

Rusty has a point as thing is, Iv decided will only race Sweetie Lewey (who is well atm 😄) then that be it.

Good luck tonight with your fella DR. 

Hi Karrots.

I think he was talking about the group who had circulated their figures to members in advance of the meeting.

It is great having an open and reasonable group of members on this website, and we can differ on our thoughts, and in general everyone listens and respects each other.

In regards to just leave a club membership that you are passionate about, and just leave without trying to save, and help it move forward, with the experience you have had in areas that need attention, is very hard to do.

Thank you for your kind wishes for this afternoon race.

Wishing you a Happy New Year.

Robert.

[JustPlodded]

31 minutes ago, Double R said:

Michael Guerin had a very easy solution for people who were disenchanted with aspects of racing, and that was leave.

Ask him about the RUNVUS syndicate of the late 90s and watch him turn white and head to the door. People in glass houses… and all that.

[Happy Sunrise]

46 minutes ago, Double R said:

I switched the TV on this morning I saw the last five minutes of the Box Seat.

Michael Guerin had a very easy solution for people who were disenchanted with aspects of racing, and that was leave. He was talking about the Auckland Trotting Club, and how some of the members had got figures together, which he didn't say were incorrect, and had circulating them before going to a meeting, and how that was bad to do that. He said if they are not happy they should leave. He then went onto talk about the club had a least completed the apartments, and some of the hole left in big deficit funds would be filled by selling some land, and the club will be fine. Time will tell!!!

In my view, Mick Guerin cannot be taken seriously in matters of harness racing because he refuses to address a number of the issues it faces.

[Happy Sunrise]

21 minutes ago, Double R said:

In regards to just leave a club membership that you are passionate about, and just leave without trying to save, and help it move forward, with the experience you have had in areas that need attention, is very hard to do.

It is a stupid comment by Guerin to suggest that is what people should do. 

Naive. 

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, karrotsishere said:

Do you think the punter who put $2k on the nose for High Flying Harry Day 1 is 1 of them?

That person won't bet again.

[karrotsishere]

1 hour ago, Double R said:

It is great having an open and reasonable group of members on this website, and we can differ on our thoughts, and in general everyone listens and respects each other.

Thank you for your kind wishes for this afternoon race.

Wishing you a Happy New Year.

What I love about this site, is that posters here, debate out the subject, with reasonable or valid debate or point of view from how they see it & refrain from getting personal & attacking the poster even if its different to their own. (Usually find when someone attacks the poster over the point - its because they are losing the debate so they sink to that personal attack low). 

1 hour ago, Double R said:

Thank you for your kind wishes for this afternoon race.

Wishing you a Happy New Year.

Happy New Year to Y'All on here, signing out for the YEAR lol. See you on the other side 😄

[Guest Wilfred]

54 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

In my view, Mick Guerin cannot be taken seriously in matters of harness racing because he refuses to address a number of the issues it faces.

Sadly, some time ago, I made the decision, Guerin appears, I switch channels .

[Trotslover]

11 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

That person won't bet again.

happy i have watched race several times high flying harry would have at best only been second fire fox with the run it had in front won easy no way am defending drive as i thought he should have come out when he had opportunity to especially when driving a hot favourite.i would love to hear defence that got him off charge cause on tv evidence looked like a several day suspension to me

[karrotsishere]

22 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

2. Have an assistant starter that admitted betting on husbands account, without his knowledge. Placing bets on Cup Week. Which is against the rules. No fine was given. 

Better give an update as re-read the RIB report, which is attached here if anyone is interested. Mis-read, were NO order costs BUT she did get fined $1000. So that makes sense. Believe her story/reasoning, even tho she could of just gone to TAB to set up account or set up account on a laptop or computer. Seems like RIB also believed her story too hence the smaller version of fine perhaps. (Likely a case of can't be bothered lol & convenience, & perhaps a thought of as if they will be checking). Lesson tho that they do look at any stage. 

https://racingintegrityboard.org.nz/decisions/non-raceday-inquiry-decision-dated-21-december-2021-sharon-donnelly/

[karrotsishere]

21 hours ago, Double R said:

Thank you for your kind wishes for this afternoon race.

Nice 3rd. Randomly meet 2 others yesterday that have shares in him. Didn't mention you, but was thinking small world. 

Who picked the winner of the Franklin Cup? Karrots did 😁

Was telling friends the reason prior the race, giving them the tip of the day e.g. he was off front tape, - main draw card followed by he is a NZ CUP horse & was 1 of only a few running on. Said ignore form line as its been in good company. His last run he was fresh, so be fitter now. Plus seen him at Alex go to front then be hard to roll once. Also said Steel the Show another that ran NZ Cup, he's off front tape too. So he's another 1 to look at. 

Said how bookies have Bettor Twist as fav & couldn't believe it. How would a female younger horse that hasn't raced in a NZ Cup make up 20m, then plough around ALL runners, then keep charging forth to win? Passing NZ Cup horses - who didn't disgrace themselves? Doubt that will happen.  

They didn't believe me & put bets on other horses like Bettor Twist, BD Joe & Hot & T. In-fact 1 goes, "Im going to bet on this Bettor Twist just because I want to see this". 

So you can imagine the bragging when Kango made lead & then held on to win & Steel the Show 2nd. 

[Happy Sunrise]

12 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Who picked the winner of the Franklin Cup? Karrots did 😁

Great minds at work here K.

[Rusty]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:51 PM, karrotsishere said:

Here is the report. Wow nothing, not even a 1 race day holiday. Go figure. 

Westport TC - Sunday, 26th December 2021
Race 10 - IT@WORK MOBILE PACE
Junior driver K Newman (HIGH FLYING HARRY) assisted by J Dunn defended a charge alleging that he failed to take all reasonable and permissible measures to ensure his runner was given full opportunity to win the race when electing not to shift his horse outwards between the 600 metres and 300 metres when an opportunity existed resulting in HIGH FLYING HARRY becoming held up behind a weakening runner leaving the final bend. After viewing the replays and hearing evidence from all parties, the Adjudicative Committee dismissed the charge.

"Assisted by J Dunn." 

It's good that junior drivers can be "assisted" by more senior drivers.

But should they be allowed to be assited by drivers that competed in the same race? I'm not sure. Pros and cons I guess. 

Not wishing to suggest nor imply something dodge went on here, with J Dunn's runner placing 4th, but perhaps the junior drivers would be better "assisted" by a senior driver that did not directly participate in the same race, strictly from an integrity perspective. 

J Dunn was obviously a huge benefit to K Newman in this example. "Everyone" is very pleased, and the matter is closed. 

However, what if J Dunn had driven the winner? He would still be able to "assist" K Newman in the stipes room. Is there no potential for conflict of interest here? Should the junior driver not be assisted by a senior horseman that did not drive in the event, to preserve integrity? Or does it not matter, and it's irrelevant who assists the junior, whether they raced in the same race or not? 

"No sir, I heard (insert junior drivers name here) yelling to his horse for more effort, but the horse was huffing and puffing on the bend and under pressure. In my opinion it couldn't possibly angle out at that point of the race, as it needed to preserve any energy it had left, in the hope to pick up the leader in the straight, and with the leader potentially running outta gas. Oh and Mr Guerin always says marker pegs are gold, gold, gold in races, so junior driver made the right decision in my opinion, and I would have driven the horse the same way." 

Just food for thought anyway.

Let's hope that the "evidence heard from all parties" in this case, sees the light of day soon. Should make for interesting reading. 

[Lightning Blue]

2 hours ago, Rusty said:

However, what if J Dunn had driven the winner? He would still be able to "assist" K Newman in the stipes room.

Agree that is a silly situation when John is not on the Trainers ticket, as doesn't want to be so he can take outside drives, so No Right him poking his nose in. He was just a rival driver. Should of been Robert or Jenna in the stipes room, if anyone.

Belinda McCarthy tried to sell the stewards rubbish after the Interdominion Grand final , with saying in the stewards room that there was no run for Boncel Benjamin  inside her horse  Expensive Ego in the home straight, when obviously there was. I call it 'Waste of time evidence' in having a non-involved party in the stewards room giving biased opinion. Stipes are not blind.

ALL of US (and the stewards)can see the run available for Newman with HighFlying Harry. The issue is Why didn't he take the run?? . Inexperience, horse racing again in 2 days time, Firefox had it won anyway, 'that moment decision' that happens every race with All drivers . many contributing factors really. 

Gavin Smith 'stayed In' earlier in day ,behind the plunge horse Mark Dunnett with his horse 'Jeremy Wells'. a shocker drive. no charges laid. 

Exactly the same thing IMO . except with 6000 race drives Gavin should of done better than a lookaround Junior like K.Newman.

[Happy Sunrise]

12 hours ago, Trotslover said:

happy i have watched race several times high flying harry would have at best only been second fire fox with the run it had in front won easy no way am defending drive as i thought he should have come out when he had opportunity to especially when driving a hot favourite.i would love to hear defence that got him off charge cause on tv evidence looked like a several day suspension to me

From a punting perspective, he lost the race at the start, he should have come out from behind Martin John and gone to the front as he had an easy opportunity to do so. Martin John has been going poorly so being behind it was a bad choice when he had options. 

Sam Ottley completely out drove him which is the best scenario out of the race I can find for him.

[Happy Sunrise]

37 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

Gavin Smith 'stayed In' earlier in day ,behind the plunge horse Mark Dunnett with his horse 'Jeremy Wells'. a shocker drive. no charges laid. 

Exactly the same thing IMO . except with 6000 race drives Gavin should of done better than a lookaround Junior like K.Newman.

Why was he looking around all the time when it seems clear his intention was to stay on the fence come hell or high water.

[karrotsishere]

4 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Who picked the winner of the Franklin Cup? Karrots did 😁

Sorry not wanting to hijack the thread, BUT just watched replay of Franklin Cup & wow what a run by Krug.

Krug had the fastest time of them ALL & was coming 3 wide from the 500 then pumped 4 wide and he kept coming. Started off 20m too, so top run to place 4th.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Why was he looking around all the time when it seems clear his intention was to stay on the fence come hell or high water.

I don't know what it is with the 2 main juniors looking around All the time. Korbyn Newman and Ben Hope too. they twist and squirm like they've got worms half the time.

Ben Hope was particularly funny all the way up the straight with HOMEBUSH LAD in the Reefton Cup. (beating our boys of conversation Dunn, Newman with HF.Harry and Gavin Smith was 4th )  all drove well.

Ben Hope needs a boring pole lol. I laughed quite heartily watching that race. He drove well and won easily by lengths, BUT was just about twisted around backwards at the winning post , and even doing it 100m after the finish. What on earth is he looking for ? Mark Purdon and Nat ,Sam Otley, R May are all 'still as a mouse' after a big win.

Think Ben and Korbyn should start correcting their 'rubber Neck' behaviour , put a big neck collar on the boys lol !!!.......

[Happy Sunrise]

2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Krug had the fastest time of them ALL & was coming 3 wide from the 500 then pumped 4 wide and he kept coming. Started off 20m too, so top run to place 4th.

 

6ff in The Race. Might get a good draw.

Off load all your Kango winnings onto it, then retire.