karrotsishere Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/racing-whip-rules-to-be-reviewed-after-heated-week/U23HFIEUHWIYILQI7SOWF556EA/ The sentencing guidelines failed their most high-profile test at Ellerslie on January 9, when Opie Bosson was suspended for six meetings for his ride on The Perfect Pink because he used the whip on her in consecutive strides, even though he used it only four times in the race. The decision of the adjudicating panel in suspending Bosson was based on three prior whip sentences inside a six-month period, so was heavily influenced by NZTR's sentencing guidelines, even though Bosson's ride clearly did not warrant a six-meeting suspension, especially when that meant missing a Group 1 day. NZTR chief executive Bernard Saundry admitted to the Herald the guidelines need reviewing and that his organisation has received a lot of negative feedback, considerably more since the Bosson suspension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, karrotsishere said: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/racing-whip-rules-to-be-reviewed-after-heated-week/U23HFIEUHWIYILQI7SOWF556EA/ The sentencing guidelines failed their most high-profile test at Ellerslie on January 9, when Opie Bosson was suspended for six meetings for his ride on The Perfect Pink because he used the whip on her in consecutive strides, even though he used it only four times in the race. The decision of the adjudicating panel in suspending Bosson was based on three prior whip sentences inside a six-month period, so was heavily influenced by NZTR's sentencing guidelines, even though Bosson's ride clearly did not warrant a six-meeting suspension, especially when that meant missing a Group 1 day. NZTR chief executive Bernard Saundry admitted to the Herald the guidelines need reviewing and that his organisation has received a lot of negative feedback, considerably more since the Bosson suspension. No doubt because of the social media efforts of Te Akau and Ellis So again what Ellis wants, Ellis gets, NZTR succumb to pressure exerted by Te Akau. Not a good look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Some suggesting this is not a Te Akau thing, but industry wide dissatisfaction. Maybe that is right, but how coincidental then, that 7 days after Ellis splurges on social media(I'm sure phone calls to Saundry probably happened), NZTR announces it will review the rules. Things just don't happen that fast at NZTR, unless one of the big boppers comes calling As I said above, what Ellis wants, Ellis gets, which potentially leaves the heart and soul of the industry, the small time player like Freda, whistling Dixie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, karrotsishere said: The decision of the adjudicating panel in suspending Bosson was based on three prior whip sentences inside a six-month period, so was heavily influenced by NZTR's sentencing guidelines, even though Bosson's ride clearly did not warrant a six-meeting suspension, especially when that meant missing a Group 1 day. This is a major issue for me. There should be zero consideration for what may or may not be missed. The offence is not lessened because a G1 is coming up. That's the absurdity of trying to suggest the offence should have a lesser punishment. If riders want to ensure they ride those bigger days, perhaps they should learn the rules and understand how not to break them. Edited January 17, 2022 by mardigras 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, mardigras said: This is a major issue for me. There should be zero consideration for what may or may not be missed. The offence is not lessened because a G1 is coming up. That's the absurdity of trying to suggest the offence should have a lesser punishment. Totally agree, and the way social media has been used to try and effect change.... grubby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Show Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, mardigras said: This is a major issue for me. There should be zero consideration for what may or may not be missed. The offence is not lessened because a G1 is coming up. That's the absurdity of trying to suggest the offence should have a lesser punishment. Agree Mardi, I was just going to post similar. It's like saying to someone, you've lost your drivers licence for careless driving but we'll let you drive on Christmas Day, New Years Day and your Birthday as they are special days .. They said the decision was influenced by NZTR's sentencing guidelines, and that's how it should be, the guidelines were put there and agreed upon initially for a good reason, to prevent multiple offending over a short period and he is a multiple offender. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just posted link here as saw it & thought you gallop folk might be interested. As for me, Dancing & I already have expressed our non-desire for over-load of whip use on Harness thread. Each to their own which is fine & there are some for & some against. I don't want whip to be used on Sweety Lewey. For safety & behaviour fine, but don't really want it used in home straight. Could just hit side sulky instead & wave the reins around & yell to encourage, think thats enough to let horse know keep trying. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Gospel Of Judas said: Sounds like we Ellis having abit of a cry. Geting his mates in the media to try bully the NZTR into corner and get his own way. Wonder if would help someone else in racing, if had a similar issue? say be bigtime crickets! Ellis is starting to sound a bit like your dwarf mate on RC, deciding which rules are to be followed and which are not(with regards to breaching name suppression) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngakonui grass Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Pandering to the ELITE will lead to racings demise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 The only problem with that, is that the ELITE think the opposite 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, karrotsishere said: Just posted link here as saw it & thought you gallop folk might be interested. As for me, Dancing & I already have expressed our non-desire for over-load of whip use on Harness thread. Each to their own which is fine & there are some for & some against. I don't want whip to be used on Sweety Lewey. For safety & behaviour fine, but don't really want it used in home straight. Could just hit side sulky instead & wave the reins around & yell to encourage, think thats enough to let horse know keep trying. Karrots. The whip is also used as steering mechanism by the rider or driver, and if a horse is running to certain side, by giving a tap with the whip on the side that it running too, will in many cases assist the horse to straighten up. It is what is called in racing, "running away from the whip". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 On the whip theme. Does anyone remember earlier this century, or it may have been earlier, David Walsh carrying two whips in a race, as part of his steering equipment on a difficult horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Double R said: Karrots. The whip is also used as steering mechanism by the rider or driver, and if a horse is running to certain side, by giving a tap with the whip on the side that it running too, will in many cases assist the horse to straighten up. It is what is called in racing, "running away from the whip". Yes that comes into the bit where I said "For safety & behaviour fine". Steering can also be included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, karrotsishere said: Yes that comes into the bit where I said "For safety & behaviour fine". Steering can also be included. All good then. Just remember though, if you don't want the whip used on your horse in the straight, this the most likely time for it to be needed, as horses can run around under pressure, and the whip guidance is attempting to give the horse a straight path forward. Edited January 17, 2022 by Double R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Double R said: All good then. Just remember though, if you don't the whip used on your horse in the straight, this the most likely time for it to be needed, as horses can run around under pressure, and the whip guidance is attempting to give the horse a straight path forward. DR think we are getting off topic a wee bit hehe. Talking about Sweety Lewey lol. Oppsey Daisey. So we better let subject get back to original which was about Bosson & Ellis. Actually 1 thing Ill add in here, which is kind of relevant to topic as another poster has brought up something. Anyway is that I do like how the owners of this site, well Im speaking for Harness side let us say what we want to a degree, in sense they don't try to influence the topic at ALL. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, karrotsishere said: DR think we are getting off topic a wee bit hehe. Talking about Sweety Lewey lol. Oppsey Daisey. So we better let subject get back to original which was about Bosson & Ellis. Actually 1 thing Ill add in here, which is kind of relevant to topic as another poster has brought up something. Anyway is that I do like how the owners of this site, well Im speaking for Harness side let us say what we want to a degree, in sense they don't try to influence the topic at ALL. That's because we have no agenda, other than our own personal thoughts on different issues 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Who would trust a 'sweaty winker' anyway? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Why are you confused Wilfred? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 16 hours ago, ngakonui grass said: Pandering to the ELITE will lead to racings demise. Pandering to the elite has already pretty much led to NZ racing's demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 15 hours ago, Double R said: Karrots. The whip is also used as steering mechanism by the rider or driver, and if a horse is running to certain side, by giving a tap with the whip on the side that it running too, will in many cases assist the horse to straighten up. It is what is called in racing, "running away from the whip". Really? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 35 minutes ago, curious said: Really? Yep, I do Curious. It happens a lot in gallops where the jockeys change the whip from one hand to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Double R said: Yep, I do Curious. It happens a lot in gallops where the jockeys change the whip from one hand to another. OK. I was always taught that the whip was a reinforcement to other aids to encourage the horse to go forward usually on the bit though obviously not necessarily so at the end of races. The problem for me with using it the way you suggest, as a steering aid, is that horses running in or out are usually doing so out of fear or pain imo. I'm not sure that applying pain to the other side is the best or most humane way to be correcting that. I certainly know that the likes of Monty Roberts would be horrified by that idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, curious said: OK. I was always taught that the whip was a reinforcement to other aids to encourage the horse to go forward usually on the bit though obviously not necessarily so at the end of races. The problem for me with using it the way you suggest, as a steering aid, is that horses running in or out are usually doing so out of fear or pain imo. I'm not sure that applying pain to the other side is the best or most humane way to be correcting that. I certainly know that the likes of Monty Roberts would be horrified by that idea. All good Curious. Would you be in favour of whips being done away with altogether, or perhaps not used at all in the last 200 metres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngakonui grass Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Double R said: On the whip theme. Does anyone remember earlier this century, or it may have been earlier, David Walsh carrying two whips in a race, as part of his steering equipment on a difficult horse? Pretty sure it was at Trentham not so sure that the horse was called Colman. July 1984 methinks Edited January 17, 2022 by ngakonui grass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, curious said: OK. I was always taught that the whip was a reinforcement to other aids to encourage the horse to go forward usually on the bit though obviously not necessarily so at the end of races. The problem for me with using it the way you suggest, as a steering aid, is that horses running in or out are usually doing so out of fear or pain imo. I'm not sure that applying pain to the other side is the best or most humane way to be correcting that. I certainly know that the likes of Monty Roberts would be horrified by that idea. I can never forget Bob Vance thrashing that Te Akau named horse trained by Gai Waterhouse within an inch of its life all the way down the Flemington straight in the Melbourne Cup. Disgusting display but perfectly within the rules at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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