Happy Sunrise Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Hesi said: In all of the debates you guys are having, the issue is not really whether there is proof or not, it is the perception that the punter has in terms of wagering, and the public from a point of view of getting involved in the industry That is what I am pushing. Perception. If John Dunn is such a great trainer (which he is and a superb driver) how can new young trainers achieve what he does with poorly performing horses in such a short space of time? If Jess Alford, Cam Jones and Matt Purvis can improve horses in such a short space of time what does that say for the rest of the trainers who, in essence, are failing their owners and horses ability by not having them anywhere near their peak? Why would you go to a Gameson or Chmiel? What happens when middle of the road trainers start disappearing and the races are full of Dunn, Todd and Purdon runners? How do trainers like Gavin Burgess (who I thought was an excellent trainer and produces horse ready to run) and Bruce Negus feel when they see their horses improve dramatically? eg Sam's Town, Mark Dunnett, Stella's Delight. Does that see them and other smaller trainers feel like continuing in the industry when they know they are so out of their depth? If John Dunn and similar trainers continue to produce horses that are transformed in short spaces of time will that turn punters off betting into races where they have these types of horses? Consequent to stating that, I will be told to punt those horses to reap the rewards, fair enough. Why not, look at Violet Knight. But, if you are an owner of a horse in the same race and see something like Stella's Delight come and out win, one would have to ask yourself why am I persisting with this horse and will I bother getting another one when I have no chance with these types of horses popping up more and more? Most people are non committal punters who don't read about stable changes etc so how do they back a horse who has no form but is paying $3 - It doesn't compute. If the relationship between high ranking officials in harness racing and leading trainers is strong through having their horses with the trainers does that create a perception of favouritism in the industry? If RIB officials adjudicate on drivers and trainers who have a social relationship does this create a perception of bias in the industry? What about the relationship of the vets? Is the newly minted code of conduct designed to help harness racing or designed to stop some participants from having a (contrary) voice? Harness is trying to generate turnover, but with false starts, starters betting on races, hot favs galloping away, standing starts not standing starts (Copy That anyone), inconsistent application of rules around late scratched horses at the start, removal of the previous starter, the odd trainer banned for illegal substance (Alford and McGrath) and mammoth form reversals, who would bet on harness? There is a reason why the TAB only splashes out on harness with $10 000 first 4s I believe, because it is the bet least open to manipulation. That can't do the industry any good unless it is a monster jackpot. Why would countless punters (some of whom are owners) continue with harness when they can only get $20 on? Why continue when if you have a little bet the odds come in $5 or $10? Why continue when you can have maximum bets of $3.40 for example. The TAB is risk adverse to harness and that can only harm harness. Why would Aussie bookmakers expose themselves to NZers with accounts with them when they are open to a rort? They don't as they don't take the races. Is there a perception of drug use in harness? After Alford, McGrath, the silence over Cam Jones, and Mitchell Kerr the drums are beating more widely so, yes, there is. Are drugs being used in harness? Don't know. Maybe trainers are using every available legal means to get a horse to win but that costs so essentially buying a win which would be depressing for owners when they get the vet bill after a win. And what about that article which said EPO is easy to get? Harness racing was subject to some of the most incompetent leadership at the start of Covid when they used it to smokescreen their way through a raft of poorly thought out changes in many areas of the game. Presentation of the product being one of them. Australian racing is miles ahead of what harness provides due to these decisions. Stakes in harness are pitiful in comparsion to the gallops in NZ and then a step further in OZ. Who would want to own a harness horse? I know more people who have a small share in an Ozzie galloper than I do harness. Is it is sign of things to come? For example, any racing people in Dunedin will be into gallopers from now on, not harness. What is needed and is badly missing is some day to day responsive leadership by HRNZ. They have done good things with the new calendar etc but they should shut down all the perception talk, not through some flimsy code of conduct but by stating what they are doing for the industry in real time. Goodness, Woodham said he was going to share everything at the beginning of his role but got the Jesse Alford situation wrong and has been very quiet since with controversial issues. What are we left with? The Box Seat? God help us all. - Do they have the courage to state what they are testing for, including Formalin and EPO etc? - Should they have had the courage to publicly exonerate Andrew Fitzgerald when he was subject to speculation about him and Cam Jones? - Do they have the courage to publicly admonish their own when they make an error or defend them when open to public perception? - Does the RIB have the courage to ask tougher questions and seek more informed answers in their stipes reports rather than just asking for the sake of asking? - Do they have the courage to visit stables who show unexplained improvement in their UDR's as a preemptive measure? - Do the heads of harness have the foresight to no longer have horses with leading stables once their current horses are retired? - Does harness have the courage to publish reports about animal welfare? Eg An explanation of the death of Mexicana - Do they actually have the courage to enforce the code of conduct? Eg House If nobody has anything to hide then none of the few suggestions above would harm anyone or breach their privacy. RIB reports are very open about what they say about participants anyway but just not when the shoe is on the other foot. There are lots of things they could do to make harness a more palatable and sustainable industry if they wanted to. As Hesi says, perception is everything. Control that in a proactive way and everyone will be better off in the long run, or as I fear, harness racing will contract in size reasonably quickly in the future as it is a cycle which could reduce very very quickly through ownership, breeding and economic conditions. Could we reach a point where more of our trainers are off to Australia and Northern harness racing folds? A really selfish thing to say is, one of the hopes for harness is Greyhound racing to get banned in the near future and harness takes some of its gambling money. Why would that happen? Because perception of that industry is indeed the truth and nothing was done about it. Those that say there is smoke in this fire and those that say there is no fire at all are both wrong because looking at what is going on is open to perception regardless. I get called negative by Craigos and LB and that is fine. People can disagree with me, and posters who are on various sites can take potshots but I don't care. If they can't see what a precarious position the industry is in, so be it. I only care about seeing the horses being looked after and enjoying a day at the races where horses, trainers and drivers compete in a positive environment. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 The crux of the debate, is that, why do the All Stars and Te Akau's of this world always seem to have the best horses. Is it down to horsemanship or is it down to other things. I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not inferring anything We get lot's of form reversals in thoroughbred, that are hard to logically explain, I guess that is racing What I could be pretty sure of, that if they did some research on what the public thought of racing, not what the industry thought of itself, the results would shock many, and confirm that the perception of racing is not great. The industry is just firing away in the dark, because it has never found out what the public, it's potential customer, think. How can you construct any business plan without knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Blue Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 21 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Those that say there is smoke in this fire and those that say there is no fire at all are both wrong because looking at what is going on is open to perception regardless. I get called negative by Craigos and LB and that is fine. People can disagree with me, and posters who are on various sites can take potshots but I don't care. If they can't see what a precarious position the industry is in, so be it. I only care about seeing the horses being looked after and enjoying a day at the races where horses, trainers and drivers compete in a positive environment Mate , you have great passion obviously but don't forget there are still a lot of active participants in the game . Every sport has it's problems , and every sport has people trying to win. It's been around a long time. Allstars have been slandered pillar to post and now some others are falling out of favour at the 'Beach'. a bit sad to me so I apologise for not agreeing. everyone does something with their horses . Trainor and Grimson have rapidly improved them too ?????? won the f#ken Interdominion recently with a Claimer horse !!!!!!!!!!! but they are innocent until proven guilty. At this stage it's GOOD ON EM !!!!! If they weren't winning I guess no problemo. Cheats get caught. Gleeson was golden boy of the 90's NSW (got life ban) Webberley the best ever in Tas (out 4 times, and for good in the end) Nathan Jack Vic Stewart Hiunter QLD... and 100 more. Out they go if PROVEN to do something ILLEGAL. You need to be charged before the knife goes in the Heart ????? Otherwise it's all nasty like peter profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addington Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said: That is what I am pushing. Perception. If John Dunn is such a great trainer (which he is and a superb driver) how can new young trainers achieve what he does with poorly performing horses in such a short space of time? If Jess Alford, Cam Jones and Matt Purvis can improve horses in such a short space of time what does that say for the rest of the trainers who, in essence, are failing their owners and horses ability by not having them anywhere near their peak? Why would you go to a Gameson or Chmiel? What happens when middle of the road trainers start disappearing and the races are full of Dunn, Todd and Purdon runners? How do trainers like Gavin Burgess (who I thought was an excellent trainer and produces horse ready to run) and Bruce Negus feel when they see their horses improve dramatically? eg Sam's Town, Mark Dunnett, Stella's Delight. Does that see them and other smaller trainers feel like continuing in the industry when they know they are so out of their depth? If John Dunn and similar trainers continue to produce horses that are transformed in short spaces of time will that turn punters off betting into races where they have these types of horses? Consequent to stating that, I will be told to punt those horses to reap the rewards, fair enough. Why not, look at Violet Knight. But, if you are an owner of a horse in the same race and see something like Stella's Delight come and out win, one would have to ask yourself why am I persisting with this horse and will I bother getting another one when I have no chance with these types of horses popping up more and more? Most people are non committal punters who don't read about stable changes etc so how do they back a horse who has no form but is paying $3 - It doesn't compute. If the relationship between high ranking officials in harness racing and leading trainers is strong through having their horses with the trainers does that create a perception of favouritism in the industry? If RIB officials adjudicate on drivers and trainers who have a social relationship does this create a perception of bias in the industry? What about the relationship of the vets? Is the newly minted code of conduct designed to help harness racing or designed to stop some participants from having a (contrary) voice? Harness is trying to generate turnover, but with false starts, starters betting on races, hot favs galloping away, standing starts not standing starts (Copy That anyone), inconsistent application of rules around late scratched horses at the start, removal of the previous starter, the odd trainer banned for illegal substance (Alford and McGrath) and mammoth form reversals, who would bet on harness? There is a reason why the TAB only splashes out on harness with $10 000 first 4s I believe, because it is the bet least open to manipulation. That can't do the industry any good unless it is a monster jackpot. Why would countless punters (some of whom are owners) continue with harness when they can only get $20 on? Why continue when if you have a little bet the odds come in $5 or $10? Why continue when you can have maximum bets of $3.40 for example. The TAB is risk adverse to harness and that can only harm harness. Why would Aussie bookmakers expose themselves to NZers with accounts with them when they are open to a rort? They don't as they don't take the races. Is there a perception of drug use in harness? After Alford, McGrath, the silence over Cam Jones, and Mitchell Kerr the drums are beating more widely so, yes, there is. Are drugs being used in harness? Don't know. Maybe trainers are using every available legal means to get a horse to win but that costs so essentially buying a win which would be depressing for owners when they get the vet bill after a win. And what about that article which said EPO is easy to get? Harness racing was subject to some of the most incompetent leadership at the start of Covid when they used it to smokescreen their way through a raft of poorly thought out changes in many areas of the game. Presentation of the product being one of them. Australian racing is miles ahead of what harness provides due to these decisions. Stakes in harness are pitiful in comparsion to the gallops in NZ and then a step further in OZ. Who would want to own a harness horse? I know more people who have a small share in an Ozzie galloper than I do harness. Is it is sign of things to come? For example, any racing people in Dunedin will be into gallopers from now on, not harness. What is needed and is badly missing is some day to day responsive leadership by HRNZ. They have done good things with the new calendar etc but they should shut down all the perception talk, not through some flimsy code of conduct but by stating what they are doing for the industry in real time. Goodness, Woodham said he was going to share everything at the beginning of his role but got the Jesse Alford situation wrong and has been very quiet since with controversial issues. What are we left with? The Box Seat? God help us all. - Do they have the courage to state what they are testing for, including Formalin and EPO etc? - Should they have had the courage to publicly exonerate Andrew Fitzgerald when he was subject to speculation about him and Cam Jones? - Do they have the courage to publicly admonish their own when they make an error or defend them when open to public perception? - Does the RIB have the courage to ask tougher questions and seek more informed answers in their stipes reports rather than just asking for the sake of asking? - Do they have the courage to visit stables who show unexplained improvement in their UDR's as a preemptive measure? - Do the heads of harness have the foresight to no longer have horses with leading stables once their current horses are retired? - Does harness have the courage to publish reports about animal welfare? Eg An explanation of the death of Mexicana - Do they actually have the courage to enforce the code of conduct? Eg House If nobody has anything to hide then none of the few suggestions above would harm anyone or breach their privacy. RIB reports are very open about what they say about participants anyway but just not when the shoe is on the other foot. There are lots of things they could do to make harness a more palatable and sustainable industry if they wanted to. As Hesi says, perception is everything. Control that in a proactive way and everyone will be better off in the long run, or as I fear, harness racing will contract in size reasonably quickly in the future as it is a cycle which could reduce very very quickly through ownership, breeding and economic conditions. Could we reach a point where more of our trainers are off to Australia and Northern harness racing folds? A really selfish thing to say is, one of the hopes for harness is Greyhound racing to get banned in the near future and harness takes some of its gambling money. Why would that happen? Because perception of that industry is indeed the truth and nothing was done about it. Those that say there is smoke in this fire and those that say there is no fire at all are both wrong because looking at what is going on is open to perception regardless. I get called negative by Craigos and LB and that is fine. People can disagree with me, and posters who are on various sites can take potshots but I don't care. If they can't see what a precarious position the industry is in, so be it. I only care about seeing the horses being looked after and enjoying a day at the races where horses, trainers and drivers compete in a positive environment. Outstanding post Happy. Its the exact reason i opened up a thread about the obvious decline of Harness in NZ. Its like death by a thousand cuts. Forbury gone Smaller fields outside of Canterbury ,Auckland in major decline. Central Districts surviving just, thanks to Mickey As for Woodham if he was that good surely he would still be at TAB. Edited February 1, 2022 by Addington 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josias Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 10 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said: That is what I am pushing. Perception. Agree Happy,an Outstanding Post. I venture to say,best on the here during Covid Era. Now,just imagine if this was circulated amoung NZHR Board Table as a 'Topic For Discussion'.!!! Hmmmn..as much chance as Trotting Racing returning to Major Cities Wellington/Dunedin or ATC Minimum Stakes rising to $30k as proffered a year or two back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 9 hours ago, Hesi said: The crux of the debate, is that, why do the All Stars and Te Akau's of this world always seem to have the best horses. Is it down to horsemanship or is it down to other things. I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not inferring anything Hi Hesi, The reason for the top stables, ie. All Stars and Te Akau, in general, having the best horses, is the weight of numbers, and quality of horses, that they have at their disposal. This along with knowledge, and experience gives them a head start on most opponents. One thing that gives the majority of us hope is getting a horse that will have the ability to outshine the top stables. Cheers. Robert. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far too much Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 10 hours ago, Hesi said: The crux of the debate, is that, why do the All Stars and Te Akau's of this world always seem to have the best horses. because they have good owners and buy the best yearlings at the sales . and prepared to pay top dollar for them and don't buy the shitters for 2k lol that's why they win so many group1s 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Parsnip Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Addington said: As for Woodham if he was that good surely he would still be at TAB. I don't hear from him much since his initial burst. Where should I be looking? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Blue Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, Purple Parsnip said: I don't hear from him much since his initial burst. Where should I be looking? At Melton Victoria Saturday night with I'm Off N Gone his horse in shares is in a $100,000 mares race . or aren't you kiwi's allowed to fly around yet . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Lightning Blue said: At Melton Victoria Saturday night with I'm Off N Gone his horse in shares is in a $100,000 mares race . or aren't you kiwi's allowed to fly around yet . She was a tidy horse in NZ. She won the Harness Millions $150k 3YO Fillies last year. But yeah more opportunities for her in Aus. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Blue Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 30 minutes ago, karrotsishere said: She was a tidy horse in NZ. She won the Harness Millions $150k 3YO Fillies last year. But yeah more opportunities for her in Aus. Since then , 1 year ago , when she (I'm Off N Gone) picked up that 80k 1st prize in the race you say there , she only Won 1 race at Forbury Park . Being in the leading Beach stable doesn't seem to of helped , contrary to Happy opinion. The 2nd placegetter is even worse , WITH GRACE driven by happys mate Korbyn Newman , was a stablemate then. Picked up the 23k for 2nd and in a whole year since , just the one win at Invercargill in 23 starts. now hacking around on these grass track Sundays...... think they should of sent her to Aus as well to get a win ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 6 hours ago, far too much said: and don't buy the shitters for 2k lol No, they buy them for 50k then discard them when they realise they are shitters. That's what an abundance of funds does, not so much good owners but those able to take the risk on losing a percentage of stock they buy. Hardly a level playing field , but it is what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addington Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Lightning Blue said: Since then , 1 year ago , when she (I'm Off N Gone) picked up that 80k 1st prize in the race you say there , she only Won 1 race at Forbury Park . Being in the leading Beach stable doesn't seem to of helped , contrary to Happy opinion. The 2nd placegetter is even worse , WITH GRACE driven by happys mate Korbyn Newman , was a stablemate then. Picked up the 23k for 2nd and in a whole year since , just the one win at Invercargill in 23 starts. now hacking around on these grass track Sundays...... think they should of sent her to Aus as well to get a win ??? Thanks for that high quality post Gamma. Very informative. Edited February 3, 2022 by Addington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addington Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 11:31 AM, Purple Parsnip said: Where should I be looking? Monday 14th February at Riding for Disabled building from 3 pm onwards🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 3:32 PM, Lightning Blue said: Since then , 1 year ago , when she (I'm Off N Gone) picked up that 80k 1st prize in the race you say there , she only Won 1 race at Forbury Park . Being in the leading Beach stable doesn't seem to of helped , contrary to Happy opinion. You need to explain fully what you have said here. How is this contrary to my opinion? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Blue Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: You need to explain fully what you have said here. How is this contrary to my opinion? Mate , can it be any more obvious . ? you say horses improve at the Beach dramatically through these threads. 'yes' ?? (or is it 'No' now? ) That was your opinion it seemed ? I'm saying horses like 'Off N Gone' and even the horse 'With Grace' (also with Dunns then) were at the Beach quite a while? , and Did NOT show dramatic results. Simple as that ... is that explained fully ? just my opinion the Beach has failed (on more than one occasion ) as does every Beach everywhere. My opinion is NEW ZEALAND harness and Galloping racing should be Doing better than ever !!!!!!! Sundee's Son and Veery Elleegant (kiwi bred who won the last Melbourne Cup and still with some kiwi owners ) with enormous Wins last year. The trotters and the gallopers should be on TV (news and Ad's) getting people involved in shares( like Karrots ) A melbourne Cup winner with NZ connections, Fabulous trotters (and Pacers) BUT No.... Instead I read that Peterprofit Garbage yesterday (NEVER again) andwe have Karrots (a keen newbie) reading that rot, and your stuff above saying she won't be supporting Dunns anymore... Sundee , Stella, Harry and MarkD are winning races , they're getting swabbed no doubt . Why throw in doubt instead of enjoying the wins and congratulating them . Allstars had this exact same thing happen lol...... Don't EVER remember anyone shooting Vinnie down for anything , with all his winners . We flocked to the races to Enjoy instead .... Happy times . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said: you say horses improve at the Beach dramatically through these threads. 'yes' ?? (or is it 'No' now? ) Certainly do. I am talking about ones that join the stable from other stables such as Mach Quillan, Mark Dunnett and Stella's Delight. It doesn't apply to horses who are present in their barn from day 1 as no comparison can be made. 10 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said: I'm saying horses like 'Off N Gone' Off N Gone has always been in the stable. Raced in very tough fields from the start. It raced Aladdin, Beyond Words and Stag Party in its first 3 races which indicates it was always seen as a good horse. It has gone to Oz and done well which is no surprise. With Grace is the same, raced in very good fields first up. As Dunn Stable horses invariably do as they never went to Forbury for example. It was always a moody type and has just not kicked on. Why this is so I don't know. I asked this question in my big post in another thread and I am interested to know the answer. If John Dunn is able to use his experience and knowledge built up over decades to improve horses who come into his stable in a matter of days how can the likes of Cam Jones do exactly the same when they have been training for minutes? Would love to know your thoughts on this and many of the other questions I have posed but my detractors have not responded. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Off N Gone won her 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th race day starts, for the Dunns I believe and furthermore, I think she commenced her racing from that stable. Pretty good record that, a horse winning 4 races from her first 10 starts. A credit to the Dunns. So if she had commenced her racing career from that stable, and established a fairly good record early on in her career, it is probably not the best candidate to hold up as an example of a horse "drastically improving" after being transferred to the magical golden sands of Woodend Beach. Simply put, she doesn't fit the criteria that Happy as previously mentioned. Which I understand it to be, a reasonably well tried horse, transferred to the beach, from another stable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 32 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said: and Galloping racing should be Doing better than ever !!!!!!! Let me give you a tip LB. I have a son in law who is a well known trainer / buys horses for a well known syndicate and is a bloodstock agent. The industry is in complete disarray, is dominated by a well known stable and breeding establishment, and is headed for the tip. The shit will hit the fan very soon and a few heads will roll. Stick to what you know , the Harness, as I am as passionate about it as you and would hate to see its demise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Blue Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Fine by me .. I like seeing any horse get a chance to win . II'm Off N Gone a big chance of a group 1 Saturday so hope she does that (or her old stablemate Spellbound) I Would quite happily put my horse with Dunns . This beach improvement seems great . I congratulate the Owners of Stella and Mark D and others that found a vacancy to get some wins from their horse . May there be many more !!!! I'm sure all the good folk posting here congratulate them too. !! if the thread was open after the mud throw. well DUNN (done) one and all . lol.... When the whinging should really kick in ,is if the ALLstars and Dunns stop winning because the quality will drop away . Butts already gone (Tim being the Alltime Group 1 winning NZ Trainer ) But with SundeeSon and Akuta and Self Assured , etc the Rowe Cup, Auckland Cup and a few others (The Race maybe) will remain with the Countries FABULOUS leading Trainers. ! can't wait ! How's my QLD girl Nat going these days ? seems a bit quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Arrgh you guys still at it, thought we had moved on ha & oh no my name comes up. Haven’t seen anything at all remotely to indicate anything funky by Dunns previously. From Dominion Nov 2021, noted a change of pattern along with a big surge in UDR rate this season. Its too early really to judge anything from that & the UDR may come down. Id be interested in what their UDR is at the end of the 1st quarter 31 March 2022. Is it still sky high or no? Some have said they have better stock they buy at yearling sales etc hence great trainers. (Which yes agree & get the point of that). As none of their latest new stock 2yos have raced yet, I see it as they are running with basically the same stock. Give or take some stable changes as per usual & as per any other year. So if it remains sky high then I would then ask the question why? (Because as mentioned previously the average UDR has been approx .2600-.2700). Id also take a look at how many of their 2yos have raced & their results. Have no further comment on it. Other than would like to see C Jones UDR at the same quarter too. And compare it to last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Blue Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 22 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: The industry is in complete disarray, is dominated by a well known stable and breeding establishment, and is headed for the tip. Well I would of thought with ZED standing in Taranaki , Surely Someone wants to try an breed a clone of Verry Elleegant after her 10 or so group 1's ?? and the MC win. does show the local horse product is fighting back against the northern Hemisphere raiders !!! Lightning Blue a great fighter in his day too. ... 40 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: decades to improve horses who come into his stable in a matter of days how can the likes of Cam Jones do exactly the same when they have been training for minutes? Would love to know your thoughts on this Can you tell me if is he a Peter Jones relative or not ? Was wondering ,, as that family is a long time in the industry and would be talking to each other I imagine ? ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Parsnip Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 49 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said: Can you tell me if is he a Peter Jones relative or not ? Was wondering ,, as that family is a long time in the industry and would be talking to each other I imagine ? ........ Son of I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Parsnip Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 6 hours ago, Addington said: Monday 14th February at Riding for Disabled building from 3 pm onwards🙄 Hmmmmmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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