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NZ CUP Odds


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5 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

The NZ Cup in the South Island has the name, so prob people will know about it. Name recognition. But done right & well The Race could easily surpass it 

Big call that, but it'll be interesting.

As a social event, I don't think NZ Cup day will be surpassed by The Race anytime soon. A decent chunk of the Cup day crowd don't give a rat's about the horses. They go there to see, and be seen. Pull duck faces, (try and pull the opposite sex whilst at it), and stick it on the 'gram, tick tock, and update their Bookfaces lol 

Cup day is ingrained into the Canterbury psyche, so I can't see the crowds steering clear unless the laws of Jacindastan are imposed once again. 

But strictly from a horse race perspective, The Race is going to be the premier race for the harness code within 4 years I'm picking.

Better horses (than the Cup) + better stake money (than the Cup) = premier race. 

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49 minutes ago, Rusty said:

As a social event, I don't think NZ Cup day will be surpassed by The Race anytime soon. A decent chunk of the Cup day crowd don't give a rat's about the horses.

On the money post.

50 minutes ago, Rusty said:

But strictly from a horse race perspective, The Race is going to be the premier race for the harness code within 4 years I'm picking.

Better horses (than the Cup) + better stake money (than the Cup) = premier race. 

On the money post.

51 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Big call that, but it'll be interesting.

Yip will be interesting. I mean that with regards to Name Recognition general public & going by numbers eg how many people know about it or have heard about it.

For eg The Race if they target say 2 hours drive in every direction from Cambridge so (Auckland, Waikato & Bay of Plenty) & market hard. The population reach is Auckland approx 1.8 million, Waikato approx 500,000, Bay of Plenty 400,000. (Figures maybe slightly out).

Compared to the entire South Island approx 1.1 million. (Figures maybe slightly out).

Anyway thats a difference.

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Quick update, radio interview with CJ re HezaSport.

CJ stated he wants to look after horse & isnt sure he will start even tho has qualified for Cup. As isnt sure how he will measure up to likes of Copy That & will not be putting him in just to make up numbers.

Guerin mentioned new calendar with a variety of different options/paths avaipable now. CJ expressed enthusiam for a trip North & to Oz if Hezasport is good enough. (Wonder what races he has in mind). Sounds like a great smart guy. Good on him & well done on win.

Kangos connections are hoping for a Spring Cup start, before heading South. Other Donelley runners Taipo & co will stay North. Said Taipo is more a shorter distance horse, so wont try qualify for Cup.

(Of note distance, stand start & just there to make numbers came up as potential deterring Cup factors). 

The Race being 2200m & mobile doesnt have any of these potential deterring factors, if one was selected. 

Krug is on verge of a return.

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On 8/28/2022 at 10:42 PM, karrotsishere said:

On the money post.

On the money post.

Yip will be interesting. I mean that with regards to Name Recognition general public & going by numbers eg how many people know about it or have heard about it.

For eg The Race if they target say 2 hours drive in every direction from Cambridge so (Auckland, Waikato & Bay of Plenty) & market hard. The population reach is Auckland approx 1.8 million, Waikato approx 500,000, Bay of Plenty 400,000. (Figures maybe slightly out).

Compared to the entire South Island approx 1.1 million. (Figures maybe slightly out).

Anyway thats a difference.

What really saddens me after being involved in Harness for 60 yrs is that we have come down to this. The rich heritage of the NZ Cup is unprecedented, since starting in 1904. Any one that has had a look through the Harness Hall of Fame will attest to that. As an example in Australia ,the Victoria Cup 1974, Miracle Mile 1967, AG Hunter Cup 1949, Interdoms 1936, in which NZ horses can compete ,have a fairly rich heritage and personally  I can't see any of them being usurped by some johnny come lately " The Race". Now I know that historically people had a great love of going to the Trots, but entertainment was fairly minimal , and if one has a look at the 1930, 1940, 1950 photographs of the major racecourses ,they were packed to the gunnels.  These days the discretionary dollar is being stretched by a myriad of entertainment  options, regardless of the population base. In a 3 words "Economy of scale".   With a trans tasman and global market for our horses I can not see an end to the drain.

Frankly and only my opinion, they should pour the money into the NZ Cup to attract the best from the oceania region, subsidy's for travelling here for Aussies etc. 

Wont happen but there yah go, and while Cambridge is a nice track, it isn't in the same league as Addington. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Globederby19
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5 hours ago, Globederby19 said:

What really saddens me after being involved in Harness for 60 yrs is that we have come down to this. The rich heritage of the NZ Cup is unprecedented, since starting in 1904. Any one that has had a look through the Harness Hall of Fame will attest to that.

 

5 hours ago, Globederby19 said:

 With a trans tasman and global market for our horses I can not see an end to the drain.

Hi Globe, I'm a great supporter of Nz Cup . Horses like Lightning Blue can turn up and give a great contest. 

Even the very first Cup run that you mentioned in 1904 the second placegetter NORICE was an American import , bought in to try and win the great race. horses like Steel Jaw, Gammalite , Smoken Up , Carrabean Blaster, For a Reason, Tiger Tara, Arden Rooney, Sushi sushi, Lightning Blue have all turned up to have a crack from Oz. with fairly good results too, but I do enjoy a 'Local' trained horse taking out the feature. 

Is nobody in Nz prepared to 'buy in' overseas horses anymore at all ? There must be some rich bloke there ? Even Seymour in Brisbane (a multi millionaire) imported Mr FEELGOOD (now a stallion at stud) and won the Interdominion defeating Blacks A Fake on home turf no less, withan NZ Trainer too !!! tim Butt I think... 

You need some IMPORTS there as well as EXPORTS to balance things up a bit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

DSC02826.JPG

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25 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

 

Hi Globe, I'm a great supporter of Nz Cup . Horses like Lightning Blue can turn up and give a great contest. 

Even the very first Cup run that you mentioned in 1904 the second placegetter NORICE was an American import , bought in to try and win the great race. horses like Steel Jaw, Gammalite , Smoken Up , Carrabean Blaster, For a Reason, Tiger Tara, Arden Rooney, Sushi sushi, Lightning Blue have all turned up to have a crack from Oz. with fairly good results too, but I do enjoy a 'Local' trained horse taking out the feature. 

Is nobody in Nz prepared to 'buy in' overseas horses anymore at all ? There must be some rich bloke there ? Even Seymour in Brisbane (a multi millionaire) imported Mr FEELGOOD (now a stallion at stud) and won the Interdominion defeating Blacks A Fake on home turf no less, withan NZ Trainer too !!! tim Butt I think... 

You need some IMPORTS there as well as EXPORTS to balance things up a bit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

DSC02826.JPG

Always a welcome addition, any Aussie runners in the Cup. I wish more competed in the great race. 

Perhaps the "standing" start puts the Aussies off a bit maybe? 

It's a bit of coin in airfares etc to go all that way, with no guarantee that the start is going to be clean. And let's face it, the start of the Cup is more often a shambles than not. 

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6 hours ago, Globederby19 said:

What really saddens me after being involved in Harness for 60 yrs is that we have come down to this. The rich heritage of the NZ Cup is unprecedented, since starting in 1904. Any one that has had a look through the Harness Hall of Fame will attest to that. 

On the money post. 

 

6 hours ago, Globederby19 said:

Frankly and only my opinion, they should pour the money into the NZ Cup to attract the best from the oceania region, subsidy's for travelling here for Aussies etc. 

Wont happen but there yah go, and while Cambridge is a nice track, it isn't in the same league as Addington.

On the money post. Cambridge doesnt have the facilties. 

Funnily enough when I was on another site I started x3 threads called Road to the Cup, as was full of excitement for it, only for ALL 3 to be bombarded with negative anti Cup, who cares about the Cup etc & Covid - politics talk hijacking all 3. Feedup I came here. 

Great idea re put more money or subsidy travel towards & agree likely wony happen. Surely a warning sign tho, if people are starting to think, then publicially say, the Race will surpass NZ Cup in 4-5 years. Its not about it being a competition, North verse South. Its about whatever works. What will bring turnover. Was reading Karaka Millions excelled from 2018 due to an additional race added & big boys group punt heavily. Thats all the talk I hear is Karaka Millions this, Karaka Millions that from usual non race goers. 

Perhaps in a way its good re Camb have put up their hand & doing something new & different, to keep others on their toes. Bear in mind Camb had Jewels taken off them & given to Addington x4 2yo races. 

6 hours ago, Globederby19 said:

What really saddens me after being involved in Harness for 60 yrs is that we have come down to this. The rich heritage of the NZ Cup is unprecedented, since starting in 1904. These days the discretional dollar is being stretched by a myriad of entertainment  options, regardless of the population base. In a 3 words "Economy of scale".   With a trans tasman and global market for our horses I can not see an end to the drain.

The thing with the industry from my perspective is it appears to be prodominetly a Baby Boomer industry. Go to Alex P & sorry but its like going to your local RSA. Be interesting to get the average age membership from all clubs around NZ. 

Aussie & USA Harness seem to have somehow targeted the younger generation. Has NZ Harness previous management been asleep at the wheel? Is it too late now? 

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1 hour ago, karrotsishere said:

Aussie & USA Harness seem to have somehow targeted the younger generation.

And that is where economy of scale comes in. Melbourne for instance has as many people as NZ, Sydney  12 million maybe, Perth probably close to 2 mill now.

Not hard to pluck the younger brigade out of that lot. And yes Karrots , us BB,s have had it too good for too long. Hardy har har , oh the memory's, aahhhhhhh.

We also had the best generation of music innovation . The list is long. But I digress.

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1 hour ago, Globederby19 said:

And that is where economy of scale comes in. Melbourne for instance has as many people as NZ, Sydney  12 million maybe, Perth probably close to 2 mill now.

Not hard to pluck the younger brigade out of that lot. And yes Karrots , us BB,s have had it too good for too long. Hardy har har , oh the memory's, 

Agree. Yes its tough isnt it & I have no magic stick idea/s to put forth to encourage younger ones in NZ.

Yes you guys have had it good. Hehe go the BB,s. Heres one for you. 

200.gif

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34 minutes ago, craigos1 said:

Gotta weird question!!!

Robert I'm sure would have the answer,

When was the last time a 3yo run in the NZ Cup?

Just got a feeling about Magic Four ............. could be completely wrong of course.

I would guess there has never been a three year old race in the cup previously.

The closest thing I could get would be Jack's Legend, who was four when he raced in the cup, but was a January foal, so was actually only three by the month he was born.

Cheers.

Robert.

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Who caught this? Such a master-piece in advertising. What a beautiful range selection of pix & colour co-ordination. Very high class & perfect, certainly caught my eye instantly. Love, love, loved the wee lil boy. Super adorble & the selection choice re ladies pic. (While at it a shout out to Profits nephew think it is. Another adorable lil cutie by pix).

This advert came out 1 Sept. It popped up on my phone, everytime tried to access Herald main page ALL day/nite!

BIG well done, to whomever did it. Superb! 

Just 1 thing ..... Guessing, it was gallops folks who did it ... ? otherwise why have a gallop picture to advertise Harness NZ Cup & Show week? Lets hope it was gallops, then it gets a 10/10 from me.

If it was Harness well done. Great stuff. But why the gallops pic ??? & if it wasnt Harness then where is your NZ Cup, Show Week advertising? & why is Gallops doing it & not you?

Screenshot_20220901-083648_Samsung Internet.jpg

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2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Just 1 thing ..... Guessing, it was gallops folks who did it ... ? otherwise why have a gallop picture to advertise Harness NZ Cup & Show week? Lets hope it was gallops, then it gets a 10/10 from me.

If it was Harness well done. Great stuff. But why the gallops pic ??? & if it wasnt Harness then where is your NZ Cup, Show Week advertising? & why is Gallops doing it & not you?

It's an advert for "Cup and Show week", and not merely the NZ Trotting Cup. It's a collaborated effort between the three racing codes, plus the A&P Show outfit (they have a new name now, but old school, we all know it as the A&P Show). 

The whole week goes off its chops in C town. The Friday (Show Day) is a public holiday (Canterbury Anniversary day), but half the town unofficially closes down on Tuesday afternoon for the Addington races. 

Cup day at Addington is obviously the main highlight of Cup week for most, but Riccarton's Cup day on the Saturday is becoming more and more popular every year, and whilst it probably won't catch Addington's big dance anytime soon, it is certainly catching up in the popularity stakes, if crowd numbers are anything to go by. 

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11 hours ago, Rusty said:

It's an advert for "Cup and Show week", and not merely the NZ Trotting Cup. It's a collaborated effort between the three racing codes, plus the A&P Show outfit (they have a new name now, but old school, we all know it as the A&P Show). 

The whole week goes off its chops in C town. The Friday (Show Day) is a public holiday (Canterbury Anniversary day), but half the town unofficially closes down on Tuesday afternoon for the Addington races. 

Cup day at Addington is obviously the main highlight of Cup week for most, but Riccarton's Cup day on the Saturday is becoming more and more popular every year, and whilst it probably won't catch Addington's big dance anytime soon, it is certainly catching up in the popularity stakes, if crowd numbers are anything to go by. 

Cool Rusty, thanks for explanation. Big win for the Gallops then.

Thing is most people in North that saw that wont get an explanation. Will be left thinking there is a nice Gallops race event in Christchurch. If they were to guess further likely they will think NZ Cup for gallops is on. 

Beautiful ad tho. Good space to advertise. Everytime I go to Herald home page on my ph either a video/TV commerical ad automatically plays or a picture ad pops up. Its always the same ad playing day/nite 1 day. If somethin catches my eye I watch or look at for longer, if not I x out straight away.

Be costly exercise, but effective depending on your goal. 

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Thought better do a quick update re the pic. It popped up again last nite on my laptop when on Herald. This time it was just pic of adorable young one only, then later a new pic appeared & it was just the ladies, then later another pic just the logo, by this time, curious I was, so clicked on it. 

It took me to a page with the 3 options, eg Harness, Greyhound, Gallops. And price options for tickets. Bravo much better. Good to get the link in there!

Saw Stuff also do ads. Noticed a Skycity video/TV commerical ad 15 secs, also 10 sec ph musuem video/commerical with dancer Paris Gobel which made me want to go! Def eye catching. Maybe something for Harness to do too in future with the right campaign. But needs to be slick. Be good to target the young ones. 

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Starting to get feeling a friendly or maybe not so friendly, Club Marketing Rivarly is starting to set in.

Who will raise to be victor?

Has a prediction calling The Race in Future to become the most premier Harness Race in future helped put a bullet up bums of others? Perhaps sitting on complacency? Used to it being an easy sell in past due to returning ageing clientele? When nowadays the reality is its a hard sell. 

In any case a lift in marketing efforts by any Club to target those outside the industry would be something desperately needed. 

Will check back in here once every few months to see what is going on & hopefully see some positive results. 

Big spend on breeding incentive which yes is needed, however prob wont attract any new people or young people. Perhaps a big marketing spend maybe needed too.

NZ Cup looks like this year maybe a goodie.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lochinvar Art won't be coming due to bleeding in his last race. Might be off to USA according to the article. Going along the same lines of Christen Me and Lasix.

The TAB shouldn't be offering any odds on him.

image.png.bbf473dce1ecaef0a97153bea00ad884.png

 

Australian harness racing’s one time pin-up pacer Lochinvar Art has run his last race Down Under. Owner Kevin Gordon said the former Hunter and Victoria Cup hero would either be retired or be sent to North America to continue his career. The shock decision came after Lochinvar Art had a minor bleed and was stood down from racing for 28 days after last Saturday night’s Gammalite Free-For-All at Melton. “There’s only two options as far as I’m concerned,” Gordon said. “Retire him or send him to the US. He’s had a bleed now and even though you can treat him, you can’t race him properly here anymore.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

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