Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Still the question remains, why do so many people support such poor results Is it a social experience thing? Is it in the hope of getting a champion one day? Or is it that they are unaware of such poor results? No question Tom that they have been huge for racing in NZ, but they don't do it for that reason, they are a business that does it to make money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 It's a numbers game for TA, clipping the ticket every which way and appealing to the ego/vanity of humans wanting the thrill of 'owning' a good horse. The syndicated price of every yearling is 20%(?) more than they have paid the vendor. That's just the start. Simple fact is that the NZ racing model in the 21st century is not viable for the majority of enthusiasts who'd like to own a horse; they have little or no chance of it being a good 'investment' because stakes are so poor; cf Australia. Apart from the capital outlay, you'd need about $25-30k pa I'd say to break even and what %-age of starters earn $30k in a season? MM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 51 minutes ago, Hesi said: Still the question remains, why do so many people support such poor results Is it a social experience thing? Is it in the hope of getting a champion one day? Or is it that they are unaware of such poor results? No question Tom that they have been huge for racing in NZ, but they don't do it for that reason, they are a business that does it to make money A business that wants to be successful and seen running with the wolf's will never due anything that will be detrimental as it will expose that they should be running with the hounds and with TA its all about image and making sure they are at the top of the pile evan if it's a pile of duds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 There are a multitude of reasons folk get into racing, ranging from social thru to corporate investment The investment angle is simple. Pitch where you want to land. In Aussie a colt winning a Group 1, particularly at 2 or 3 in the big Gp 1s (Slipper, Derby erc), guarantees a sire career and a sale price of 10 to 30 mil. In Aussie a mare winning a Group 1 almost guarantees her progeny will achieve a very high 6 figure yearling sale price. Then you have the social angle from $7k picnic meetings (ie NZ racing) thru to $169k plus Saturday Metro meetings. The full spectrum is covered. As far as TA are concerned, surprised they have not yet landed in Sydney, Go Racing have and are not looking back having had very good Saturday successes. I have no doubt TA will journey to NSW as part of their development, with Vic probably much harder to kick start, but another possibility down the track, satteliting for Vic carnivals from NSW. Good luck to those that move over to richer racing, in many ways, such a move is a simple economic decision with little if any economic downside Interesting times, particularly in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 25 minutes ago, Turny said: There are a multitude of reasons folk get into racing, ranging from social thru to corporate investment The investment angle is simple. Pitch where you want to land. In Aussie a colt winning a Group 1, particularly at 2 or 3 in the big Gp 1s (Slipper, Derby erc), guarantees a sire career and a sale price of 10 to 30 mil. In Aussie a mare winning a Group 1 almost guarantees her progeny will achieve a very high 6 figure yearling sale price. Then you have the social angle from $7k picnic meetings (ie NZ racing) thru to $169k plus Saturday Metro meetings. The full spectrum is covered. As far as TA are concerned, surprised they have not yet landed in Sydney, Go Racing have and are not looking back having had very good Saturday successes. I have no doubt TA will journey to NSW as part of their development, with Vic probably much harder to kick start, but another possibility down the track, satteliting for Vic carnivals from NSW. Good luck to those that move over to richer racing, in many ways, such a move is a simple economic decision with little if any economic downside Interesting times, particularly in NZ No need, their core business is syndicates and the ongoing income stream from them. As long as they get plenty of people wanting to be in syndicates, then no need to change. Forays across to Aus with their best horses, but that is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Agree Alan, they are unlikely to move and the big fish small pond comes to the fore for sure. Economically the Rate of Return locally will continue to be a disaster, there is no business model to support investing here ... hence my minor investments in Mlb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I doubt Te Akau factor in any stake money return to their business model. Their rate of return is purely based on clipping the ticket at each stage, and as long as they get plenty of syndicate members, then it works. A nice operation if you can get it, a lot of work though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngakonui grass Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 if they retain 10% of each horse then they will recieve 19% of all stake,the jock 5% and the remaining holders will share 76%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Hesi said: Still the question remains, why do so many people support such poor results Is it a social experience thing? Is it in the hope of getting a champion one day? Or is it that they are unaware of such poor results? No question Tom that they have been huge for racing in NZ, but they don't do it for that reason, they are a business that does it to make money Or is it the fact when you buy in it is extremely hard to buy out!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hesi said: Details? Just sent you a DM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Allovertheform said: Or is it the fact when you buy in it is extremely hard to buy out!!!!!! Have looked at a Sale and Purchase agreement, and it is for the racing career of the horse, and if you want to sell your share Te Akau must approve. Both fair and reasonable to protect Te Akau, but I guess the 'must approve' part could have a lot of room for movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 6 hours ago, Turny said: There are a multitude of reasons folk get into racing, ranging from social thru to corporate investment The investment angle is simple. Pitch where you want to land. In Aussie a colt winning a Group 1, particularly at 2 or 3 in the big Gp 1s (Slipper, Derby erc), guarantees a sire career and a sale price of 10 to 30 mil. In Aussie a mare winning a Group 1 almost guarantees her progeny will achieve a very high 6 figure yearling sale price. Then you have the social angle from $7k picnic meetings (ie NZ racing) thru to $169k plus Saturday Metro meetings. The full spectrum is covered. As far as TA are concerned, surprised they have not yet landed in Sydney, Go Racing have and are not looking back having had very good Saturday successes. I have no doubt TA will journey to NSW as part of their development, with Vic probably much harder to kick start, but another possibility down the track, satteliting for Vic carnivals from NSW. Good luck to those that move over to richer racing, in many ways, such a move is a simple economic decision with little if any economic downside Interesting times, particularly in NZ Gai WAterhouse set up with Te Akau in New Zealand. Seemed to fizzle out without really getting off the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, slam dunk said: Gai WAterhouse set up with Te Akau in New Zealand. Seemed to fizzle out without really getting off the ground. As TA like full control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 35 minutes ago, slam dunk said: Gai WAterhouse set up with Te Akau in New Zealand. Seemed to fizzle out without really getting off the ground. How long ago was that SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Turny said: How long ago was that SD Must have been about mid 2000-2010. Trained in partnership with Mark Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) Thanks SD, was unaware of that which I presume was a template for feeding the better ones into NSW .... has merit, probably more so today with the local picnic meeting stakes on offer Edited January 8, 2023 by Turny Spell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanturk Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Not that I agree with this forum, I read t a maybe setting up a base in aussie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Agree Edited January 10, 2023 by Turny Spell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Well let's see what is announced. Bensley was a bit off the mark about Andrew Forsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanturk Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Turny said: That's what the drums are beating Bryce, NSW and I am told not a feeder camp for existing trainers. I am for 1 looking now at shares in aussie trained , raced. The $$$ just don't stack up here for thoroughbred racing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, vanturk said: Not that I agree with this forum, I read t a maybe setting up a base in aussie Why don't you agree with what's being said it's all facts based that are all public if you want to put that work in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Anybody posting on this thread, just make sure anything is either opinion, or data that is in the public domain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanturk Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, Allovertheform said: Why don't you agree with what's being said it's all facts based that are all public if you want to put that work in. Because I'm not 1 to judge on performance. Either you want to invest or you don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, vanturk said: Because I'm not 1 to judge on performance. Either you want to invest or you don't. But shouldn't that be the main measure on the reason to invest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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