Hesi Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 Unlikely Polygon will start in the Waikato Guineas or the Fillies Classic, off to Aus Cruz Missile also unlikely to start. Some heavy rain forecast for later in the day at Te Rapa. Bets on before scratchings in the morning methinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 8 hours ago, Hesi said: Unlikely Polygon will start in the Waikato Guineas or the Fillies Classic, off to Aus Cruz Missile also unlikely to start. Some heavy rain forecast for later in the day at Te Rapa. Bets on before scratchings in the morning methinks yes but Maxi's bet is on Cruz Missile ..not scratched yet! If he doesnt start theyll find it hard to beat Waitak. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 Well, I don't think we can use the Waikato Guineas as much of a form guide for the Derby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buller Rep Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 7 hours ago, Hesi said: Well, I don't think we can use the Waikato Guineas as much of a form guide for the Derby Or anything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 Devildom made up a lot of ground with a nice finish, so could be a hope on a softish track Denby Road was disappointing, although I note George Simon called it early in his call coming around the home turn when it was 3rd last and 100m out when it was 4th last. More hoipe that any accurate reflection of what the horse was doing https://loveracing.nz/Common/SystemTemplates/Modal/Video.aspx?v=http%3a%2f%2fwww.racingreplays.co.nz%2fmedia%2f202302%2fM2_WAIK_R08_030223.mp4&i=%2fCommon%2fImage.ashx%3fw%3d565%26h%3d314%26a%3d1%26o%3d1%26z%3d1%26bg%3deeeeee%26p%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.racingreplays.co.nz%2fmedia%2f202302%2fM2_WAIK_R08_030223.jpg&r=Race 8 - LEGACY LODGE WAIKATO GUINEAS&rs=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Sacred Satono off to Aus, Fireball Stakes on March 4, then possibly the Arrowfield Sprint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Potentially the top 3 staying 3 year olds all still in the Herbie Dyke, Wild Night, Sharp'N'Smart and Cruz Missile. Let's hope all 3 accept. Prowess, the Fillies Classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 51 minutes ago, Hesi said: Potentially the top 3 staying 3 year olds all still in the Herbie Dyke, Wild Night, Sharp'N'Smart and Cruz Missile. Let's hope all 3 accept. Prowess, the Fillies Classic Wild Night is definitely going to accept. Cheers. Robert. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Legarto - Australian Guineas March 4 Wild Night - Herbie Dyke Maven Belle - BCD Sprint Pier - Hobartsville Stakes Sharp 'N' Smart - Herbie Dyke Sacred Satono - Fireball Stakes Dynastic - ?? Devastate - ?? Desert Lightning - Probably the Avondale Guineas The Intimidator - Probably also the Avondale Guineas Prowess - Fillies Classic Wessex - ?? Cognito - ?? Waitak - Avondale Guineas Best seller - ?? Polygon - ??? Surprised not in the Fillies Classic Lickety Spilt - Ken Hayes Stakes Mr Maestro - Autumn Stakes Cruz Missile - Herbie Dyke? Denby Road - Probably going to have to look for an easy kill somewhere Opawa Jack - Taking the C'est La Guerre route with a win in the Wairarapa Cup against the older horses. Possible the Wairoa Cup or St Leger trial Easily the best collection of 3 year olds we have had in a long time. Hard to keep track of where they are all going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Legarto - Australian Guineas March 4 Wild Night - El Cheapo Cars Classic, then Levin Classic Maven Belle - Levin Classic then Brisbane Pier - Spelling until Spring Sharp 'N' Smart - Derby Devildom - Derby, hoping for rain Sacred Satono - T J Smith Stakes Dynastic - Probably Derby Devastate - ?? Desert Lightning - Derby Mark Twain - Derby The Intimidator - Levin Classic Prowess - Derby? or Vinery/ATC Oaks Cognito - Levin Classic? Waitak - Derby Best Seller - ?? Polygon - Aus, ATC Oaks Lickety Spilt - Angus Armanasco Stakes Mr Maestro - Caulfield Autumn Classic Feb 25 Cruz Missile - Derby? Denby Road -?? Opawa Jack - Taking the C'est La Guerre route. Derby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Best route to the Derby would seem via Wexford Stables. Certainly wouldn't lose anything in advice. I would say from quite a few months back Waitak would have been prepared to peak on the one day. Whereas others would have been peaking whilst seeking to be worthy of a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 Legarto - Australian Guineas March 4 WIINER, spelling till Spring Wild Night - Probably out for a spell Maven Belle - Levin Classic ??? then Brisbane Pier - Spelling until Spring Sharp 'N' Smart - Derby WINNER. Onto the Aus Derby and Queen Elizabeth Devildom - ?? Sacred Satono - 7th Challenge Stakes at Randwick, next?? Dynastic - ?? Devastate - ?? Desert Lightning - ?? Mark Twain - Nominated for the Aus Derby, also with Andalus and Full Of Sincerity The Intimidator - Levin Classic, good win today Prowess - Bonecrusher Stakes, Vinery?? They will want an Aus G1 and will be encouraged by Legarto's win Cognito - Levin Classic? Waitak - ?? Best Seller - ?? Polygon - Aus, ATC Oaks Lickety Spilt - ?? Mr Maestro - Rosehill Guineas?? after poor run today Cruz Missile - Higgins at Awapuni on April 1, apparently does not like Te Rapa Denby Road -?? As predicted, the Levin Classic field has fallen away. At best second tier horses for a 350K G1 I would say that most of the Derby runners will be spelled, some with a view to Brisbane, none will go to Sydney other than SNS and Andalus, although Mark Twain and Full Of Sincerity are also nominated for the Aus Derby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry30 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 3/4/2023 at 9:51 PM, Hesi said: Legarto - Australian Guineas March 4 WIINER, spelling till Spring Wild Night - Probably out for a spell Maven Belle - Levin Classic ??? then Brisbane Pier - Spelling until Spring Sharp 'N' Smart - Derby WINNER. Onto the Aus Derby and Queen Elizabeth Devildom - ?? Sacred Satono - 7th Challenge Stakes at Randwick, next?? Dynastic - ?? Devastate - ?? Desert Lightning - ?? Mark Twain - Nominated for the Aus Derby, also with Andalus and Full Of Sincerity The Intimidator - Levin Classic, good win today Prowess - Bonecrusher Stakes, Vinery?? They will want an Aus G1 and will be encouraged by Legarto's win Cognito - Levin Classic? Waitak - ?? Best Seller - ?? Polygon - Aus, ATC Oaks Lickety Spilt - ?? Mr Maestro - Rosehill Guineas?? after poor run today Cruz Missile - Higgins at Awapuni on April 1, apparently does not like Te Rapa Denby Road -?? As predicted, the Levin Classic field has fallen away. At best second tier horses for a 350K G1 I would say that most of the Derby runners will be spelled, some with a view to Brisbane, none will go to Sydney other than SNS and Andalus, although Mark Twain and Full Of Sincerity are also nominated for the Aus Derby Lol...some of us quite happy to be a second tier horse with a chance at a Group 1 race 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, henry30 said: Lol...some of us quite happy to be a second tier horse with a chance at a Group 1 race Welcome, thanks for posting, of course you would be. Can only relate to the Levin Classic, formerly Bayer Classic. The thread is about the outstanding overall quality of the 3 year olds in NZ this year, like a classic Bordeaux vintage. Also the poor scheduling of the race, when it is pretty much all over for the 3 year old's in NZ for the season. Anyway good luck, no Legarto, Sharp N Smart, Wild Night and Prowess, so hope you do well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 41 minutes ago, Hesi said: Welcome, thanks for posting, of course you would be. Can only relate to the Levin Classic, formerly Bayer Classic. The thread is about the outstanding overall quality of the 3 year olds in NZ this year, like a classic Bordeaux vintage. Also the poor scheduling of the race, when it is pretty much all over for the 3 year old's in NZ for the season. Anyway good luck, no Legarto, Sharp N Smart, Wild Night and Prowess, so hope you do well Some late maturing types deserve a chance at a decent race too...last year it was won by a superstar now so why is it at the wrong time...not all 3yos go for the derby some can not stay...this may just be one of those years where for one reason or another some have fallen by the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 Fair comment about sprinting vs the staying types, I should have included that in my comments, I think I actually did somewhere. But G1's should be about the best horses competing against the best, especially 3 year old's, and the calendar should be designed to facilitate that, including taking into account the Aus calendar. Imperatriz last year was a blip, as the last few Levin Classics have seen very much the second tier running. The Levin Classic or Bayer as it was called, sat nicely in Nov, after some initial resistance, until the Derby was moved and the 2000 Guineas made some ridiculous stake. Then it was moved to mid Jan when incorporated in the Trentham schedule, but that ultimately was in the way of Karaka Million night, so it was again moved to mid March, where it now sits. Very much a shame that this race has been kicked around, as it is one of the few races that had been established in recent times that had gained iconic status. Probably based on those that had won it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Hesi said: Welcome, thanks for posting, of course you would be. Can only relate to the Levin Classic, formerly Bayer Classic. The thread is about the outstanding overall quality of the 3 year olds in NZ this year, like a classic Bordeaux vintage. Also the poor scheduling of the race, when it is pretty much all over for the 3 year old's in NZ for the season. Anyway good luck, no Legarto, Sharp N Smart, Wild Night and Prowess, so hope you do well I can see who your horse is now, good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Prowess wins the G1 Bonecrusher, to again confirm the quality of the 3 year olds this season. I can't find the particular set of rules in the Rules of Racing, but if I recall correctly, it is something to do with placings. Defibrillate was chopped out of the racing by Prowess when mounting a likely challenge, yet the protest came from Campionessa, where the interference was minimal and never going to be changed. I would have thought that Defibrillate should be protesting, as the interference potentially cost the horse the race Strange rules McNab gets 9 days and $2K fine, yet in the Cup, Bayliss gets 11 days and $2K fine for excessive use of the whip. I thought the McNab incursion had potentially more ramifications, yet a slightly less penalty?? For a start it cost Defibrillate the race(maybe), and also we have seen the damage such severe shifting out can do when Bosson's mount wiped our 4 horses in a race several months ago, all 4 falling. What would have happened in Aus, had such happened 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Here is the relevant rule(s). Placed, is defined as a stake bearing place, not a dividend bearing place. So a case can be made for putting Prowess behind Defibrillate, so 5th, with Campionessa then winning. I wonder why there was no protest from the Defibrillate camp 642 (1) If a placed horse or its Rider causes interference within the meaning of this Rule 642 to another placed horse, and the Adjudicative Committee is of the opinion that the horse so interfered with would have finished ahead of the first mentioned horse had such interference not occurred, they may place the first mentioned horse immediately after the horse interfered with. (2) For the purposes of Rules 637 and 642: (a) placed horse shall be a horse placed by the Judge in accordance with Rule 641(3); and (b) interference is defined as: (i) a horse crossing another horse without being at least its own length and one other clear length in front of such other horse at the time of crossing; 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 what evidence do you have that Defibrillate would have finished ahead of Prowess? The fact that the jockey did not want to protest against the winner would indicate to me that he knew he was unlikely to get past her. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 43 minutes ago, Maximus said: what evidence do you have that Defibrillate would have finished ahead of Prowess? The fact that the jockey did not want to protest against the winner would indicate to me that he knew he was unlikely to get past her. MM Or that it was a waste of time. At best Defibrillate would have been put up to 4th and got another $12,800 dollars. Defibrillate did not get the opportunity to see whether we could test Prowess, because he was grossly interfered with by Prowess, quite clearly, under the rules of racing(see above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigos1 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 10 hours ago, Hesi said: Prowess wins the G1 Bonecrusher, to again confirm the quality of the 3 year olds this season. I can't find the particular set of rules in the Rules of Racing, but if I recall correctly, it is something to do with placings. Defibrillate was chopped out of the racing by Prowess when mounting a likely challenge, yet the protest came from Campionessa, where the interference was minimal and never going to be changed. I would have thought that Defibrillate should be protesting, as the interference potentially cost the horse the race Strange rules McNab gets 9 days and $2K fine, yet in the Cup, Bayliss gets 11 days and $2K fine for excessive use of the whip. I thought the McNab incursion had potentially more ramifications, yet a slightly less penalty?? For a start it cost Defibrillate the race(maybe), and also we have seen the damage such severe shifting out can do when Bosson's mount wiped our 4 horses in a race several months ago, all 4 falling. What would have happened in Aus, had such happened Firstly I am confident if this race hypothetically had been run in Australia same final result would have occurred. Stewards in both countries are coming down hard on excessive whip use, You only have to look at NZ Oaks promo on Trackside today , whilst enjoyed seeing past winners , the whip use in 1981 , 83 quite frankly made me cringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 Is it the connections or stipes that initiate a protest, or both The reason I ask, is that the protest was 2nd vs 1st. It was never going to succeed, because the interference was minor. However the interference by Prowess to Defibrillate was a lot worse and denied a chance of Defibrillate winning the race. The evidence is subjective, but the point is, he was denied a chance. Why was a protest not initiated by the stipes on behalf of Defibrillate against Prowess. It was severe interference, and had McNab made an effort to straighten the horse, her chances of winning would have been affected. I read somewhere, that someone said, will McNab learn from his penalty and 9 days. Does a bear shit in the woods, of course he wont. A G1 win is secured, the connections will pay the fine and 'adjust' his winning percentage, so the 9 days means he is not financially disadvantaged. A G1 win against the older horses at WFA will add a huge amount of value to Prowess as a broodmare and her progeny, hundreds of times more than compensating McNab for any financial penalty. The G1 win is secured, that is all that matters By the way, no bet in the race, so not speaking from the pocket as they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Either could initiate a protest from my understanding. I don't think there is any issue if the stewards don't lodge a protest, the connections could have - and they decided against it. My opinion is that Defibrillate was not going well enough to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, mardigras said: Either could initiate a protest from my understanding. I don't think there is any issue if the stewards don't lodge a protest, the connections could have - and they decided against it. My opinion is that Defibrillate was not going well enough to win. As I pointed out to Maxi, it was not worth the effort of the connections of Defibrillate lodging a protest, as the best they could have got was Prowess relegated back to 5th with their horse moving up one place to 4th and an extra $12,800 in prize money. Defibrillate was severely checked by Prowess taking it's line when it was not entitled to do so, causing Defibrillate to lose momentum. It was serious enough for the stipes to initiate an inquiry, which i was surprised they did not. Okay, the judicial committee may well have found in favour of Prowess, but it was never the subject of scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.