Freda Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 And while I'm having a rant, why is it that local riders don't pull their whips through ? you see Kennedy and Zackey fluently swapping the stick over to keep the horse on a straight course, Doyle too, it's like playing pro tennis without a backhand. Crazy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 I'm not sure always dq is the right approach, but the option to dq should be there. A very easy way to prevent this if dq is an option is to massively ramp up the penalty - especially the suspension part, and dq under certain situations. There is already the ability to change the placings. If a change of placings isn't warranted (as well as if it is), then a 30 - 40 day suspension, increasing for repeat or more severe offences would end it. They simply cannot afford to be out of action for that long, and the connections are not going to pay for them during that length of period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlodded Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Interesting perspectives on the race. I was too busy watching my two in PJ's comp: La Crique and Campionessa, from the top of the straight. They spent most of the first half of the straight fighting each other and I was surprised Campionessa got even close to winning. If the jockeys had been more interesting in the finishing line than stopping the other, things may have been different. As a punter... I saw almost the same scenario a couple of years back (and mine moved out far less) and mine got put out. All I want is consistency. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Freda said: Yes. Agreed. It also removes the bias - or incompetence - of stipes who can't see properly. Curious will know, I think there are pretty strict rules in the U.S on this matter. I seem to recall an incident in one of the major classics that would have gone unnoticed here, or at the worst, the rider would have been cautioned to 'show more care in future '. No pissing around there, disqualified. 2019 Derby. Maximum Security disqualified for interference on the second turn and he won by 1 3/4 lengths. Demoted to last (17th). Edited March 13, 2023 by curious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, curious said: 2019 Derby. Maximum Security disqualified for interference on the second turn and he won by 1 3/4 lengths. Demoted to last (17th). Jockey got 15 riding days for “failure to control his mount and make the proper effort to maintain a straight course”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) Wow. Now that would see some changed attitudes and cleaner riding. Edited March 13, 2023 by Freda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 On 3/8/2023 at 7:32 PM, Hesi said: I can see who your horse is now, good luck I see also from the order of entry you are guaranteed a start, and the TAB has you as some chance, so good luck again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 On the subject of stipes, fines, suspensions, cleaner riding etc etc... here's the list from just one raceday (Auckland Cup day) that shows how USELESS the system is....these jocks are giving the finger to these light penalties cos they keep on doing it ...Jake Bayliss smashed his mount 10 times before the 100m mark in the Cup and having already transgressed in a prior race. Tayla Mitchell also appears twice (suspended twice). T Mitchell LINCOLN STAR Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] Suspended 19-26/3, 5 days and fined as below T Mitchell SAVONOSKI Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] Suspended 27/3-8/4, 6 days and fined as below M McNab PROWESS Careless riding 200 metres [Rule 638(1)(d)] Suspended 19/3-5/4, 9 days and fined as below J Bayliss NERVE NOT VERVE Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] Suspended 21/3-10/4, 11 days and fined as below Fines: Race 1 2 3 6 8 9 10 T Mitchell LINCOLN STAR Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $250 J Fawcett SINGING SUN Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $250 T Mitchell SAVONOSKI Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $300 J Bayliss FOREVER YOUNG Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $500 M McNab PROWESS Careless riding 200 metres [Rule 638(1)(d)] $2,000 J Doyle ASTERIX Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $500 J Bayliss NERVE NOT VERVE Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $2,000 L Satherley ROGER THAT Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $500 J Riddell MADAME LE FAY Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] $500 Warnings: O Bosson AMALFI PRINCE Excessive use of whip [Rule 638(3)(g)(i)] MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 It is why I commented on Mardi's post about things being done in the best interests of racing Win at all costs In an age when treatment of animals is coming more and more under the spotlight, racing carries on regardless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, Hesi said: It is why I commented on Mardi's post about things being done in the best interests of racing Win at all costs In an age when treatment of animals is coming more and more under the spotlight, racing carries on regardless But the enforcement of the rules and severity of the punishment is what is insufficient. My posts were about the effect on the chance of Defibrillate. They are different things. The punishments are insufficient. Whether or nor placings are affected under the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 6 hours ago, mardigras said: I'm not sure always dq is the right approach, but the option to dq should be there. A very easy way to prevent this if dq is an option is to massively ramp up the penalty - especially the suspension part, and dq under certain situations. There is already the ability to change the placings. If a change of placings isn't warranted (as well as if it is), then a 30 - 40 day suspension, increasing for repeat or more severe offences would end it. They simply cannot afford to be out of action for that long, and the connections are not going to pay for them during that length of period. Still open to conjecture and if one of the panel members "favoured" jockey or owner is involved then still open for incompetence...no I think the US and other countries rule is what's needed...no ifs but maybes you cause interference that results in horses been restricted from having a clear run then out you go...back to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RJB said: Still open to conjecture and if one of the panel members "favoured" jockey or owner is involved then still open for incompetence...no I think the US and other countries rule is what's needed...no ifs but maybes you cause interference that results in horses been restricted from having a clear run then out you go...back to last. What other countries are you referring to? And what you have written is not the rule in all cases in the US. Edited March 14, 2023 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RJB said: Still open to conjecture and if one of the panel members "favoured" jockey or owner is involved then still open for incompetence...no I think the US and other countries rule is what's needed...no ifs but maybes you cause interference that results in horses been restricted from having a clear run then out you go...back to last. The rule even in the US is subjective and I expect varies from state to state. Edited March 14, 2023 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, mardigras said: What other countries are you referring to? Some South American countries as well as the USA...not sure about what Canada does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, mardigras said: The rule even in the US is subjective and I expect varies from state to state. I think it still results in disqualification...one thing for sure its a damn site better than our kangaroo court system.Where its not what you know but who....and thats wrong even if its just a perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, RJB said: I think it still results in disqualification...one thing for sure its a damn site better than our kangaroo court system.Where its not what you know but who....and thats wrong even if its just a perception. Not always. Not always back to last. The rule is still subjective and won't get around your issue of favourtism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 Well at least you were in with a starters chance henry30. I see the farcical whip rules once again to the fore Romancing The Moon's rider fined 5K for excessive use of the whip, gladly paid for by the syndicate. As predicted the G1 Levin Classic became a race for second stringers, if that, with the top six 3 year old's all missing, in addition any potential staying 3 year old's, using 1600m as a precursor to a Derby NZ racing can ill afford, a 350K G1 so poorly placed. Time to reschedule it earlier in the season, as a lead up race to the Derby, Oaks or other races in Aus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/14/2023 at 1:24 PM, mardigras said: Not always. Not always back to last. The rule is still subjective and won't get around your issue of favourtism. How do you believe that...there is no room for interpretation...cause interference to another runner you are out...how is that open to favouritism...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 hours ago, RJB said: How do you believe that...there is no room for interpretation...cause interference to another runner you are out...how is that open to favouritism...??? Who decides what constitutes interference? A robot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 hours ago, mardigras said: Who decides what constitutes interference? A robot? You seem like one...interference is very clearcut...come in contact with another runner or impede it in any way ...seems no favouritism there...its a damn site better than now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 9 hours ago, RJB said: You seem like one...interference is very clearcut...come in contact with another runner or impede it in any way ...seems no favouritism there...its a damn site better than now. It appears you feel the need to comment on the person rather than the topic. On that basis, this is my last response to you. I haven't said it isn't better. But it is still subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 hours ago, mardigras said: It appears you feel the need to comment on the person rather than the topic. On that basis, this is my last response to you. I haven't said it isn't better. But it is still subjective. No just referring to your robot comment...its not subjective at all...rule is if this or this happens gone...end of story...nothing subjective at all.Anyway thats my view and I am sticking t it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Thank you gentlemen, fair to say that you two will agree to disagree on the subject. This thread has morphed from the subject of 3yo Quality to something completely different, so let's get back to the original topic of discussion. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 25, 2023 Author Share Posted March 25, 2023 Prowess totally superior in the Vinery Just leaves the Aus Derby and Oaks and that is a wrap for the season. Sharp 'N' Smart fave for the Derby with Mark Twain, Full Of Sincerity, Andalus and Tapildoodledoo live chances if they line up. Polygon a good chance to take out the Oaks, Pennyweka lining up?? The doubters will query the quality of the Aus 3 year olds this season, but you cannot deny it has been a vintage season in terms of quality and numbers of very good horses. Apt that this thread was started, as I cannot recall a better season for 3 year olds in recent times. Sure there have been the better 3 year old stars, but never the numbers. And only time will tell us how good some of these horses like Sharp 'N' Smart, Prowess, Legarto, Pier and Wild Night turn out to be 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 Pennyweka paying late fee and off on Sun to the Aus Oaks, now that Prowess is not there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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