Thoughts on Invercargill

[Guest Wilfred]

Just a few observations

1) Well done to the Wiliiamasons for giving Kaleb Bublitz the opportunity to shine. I wonder how many other northern juniors, starved of opportunities, could get a chance in the South.

2) I wonder about some of the owner/trainer/drivers who decide to steer their own horses. One or two of them are quite "portly" but weight is not considered as with jockeys.

3)it looks like a lovely day down south. Picnic at home isn't quite the same as a picnic at the races.

[karrotsishere]

Just watched some replays  Race 1, 2 & 3 after reading your thread.

1. Nice weather down there by the looks.
2. How good. With A Bang wins Race 3 which must be named after him … (Own a Share in With a Bang Mobile Pace)
3. How good. K Bublitz getting a win. Nice drive he wasn’t about to hand up & give the win away to stable-mate. Nope sorry. Shame stablemate broke up in sense it would of been a stable quinella for them.
4. These winners are racing away.

[Happy Sunrise]

58 minutes ago, Wilfred said:

Just a few observations

1) Well done to the Wiliiamasons for giving Kaleb Bublitz the opportunity to shine. I wonder how many other northern juniors, starved of opportunities, could get a chance in the South.

2) I wonder about some of the owner/trainer/drivers who decide to steer their own horses. One or two of them are quite "portly" but weight is not considered as with jockeys.

3)it looks like a lovely day down south. Picnic at home isn't quite the same as a picnic at the races.

4) Full on driving in Race 7. Wonder if some will be reminded of their obligations?

[karrotsishere]

13 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

4) Full on driving in Race 7. Wonder if some will be reminded of their obligations?

Ok watched this race as its highlighted here. My word. I never understand why drivers kami-kazi drive for lead for a long period. 9 out of 10 times ends in tears. Yet sure enough they seem to keep doing it. Thought it might be a Jnr race but nope not Jnrs 😬

[Lightning Blue]

16 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

4) Full on driving in Race 7. Wonder if some will be reminded of their obligations?

 

2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Ok watched this race as its highlighted here. My word. I never understand why drivers kami-kazi drive for lead for a long period.

Twas a good race . Love seeing them all have a crack. I've seen more criticism on these threads about the very 'quiet' NZ driving generally (sit back then run on late sort of thing, unless you are Mark or Nat)  , so generally no good complaining when they all want to get up there and have a bit of a dig .

Sam Ottley driving the 'favourite' so wanted to keep the lead in R7. nothing wrong with that either. Only went the usual 2 minute mile rate. She (sam) ran last but bounced back to win race 9 at her next drive. so all good.

The winner 'The Cashman' of Race 7 was three wide the entire 2200m trip for Nathan Williamson. How good was that? you don't see that too often? ... and still 'Cash -In' and get the Cash. hope they won some dollars lol.

[Double R]

18 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

 

Twas a good race . Love seeing them all have a crack. I've seen more criticism on these threads about the very 'quiet' NZ driving generally (sit back then run on late sort of thing, unless you are Mark or Nat)  , so generally no good complaining when they all want to get up there and have a bit of a dig .

Sam Ottley driving the 'favourite' so wanted to keep the lead in R7. nothing wrong with that either. Only went the usual 2 minute mile rate. She (sam) ran last but bounced back to win race 9 at her next drive. so all good.

The winner 'The Cashman' of Race 7 was three wide the entire 2200m trip for Nathan Williamson. How good was that? you don't see that too often? ... and still 'Cash -In' and get the Cash. hope they won some dollars lol.

Stipes report.

SO ART I - hung inwards when weakening on the final bend striking track markers. Stewards questioned driver S Ottley regarding the tactics she adopted during the running. Miss Ottley explained that the horse had performed well at its last start after racing parked throughout and due to this she was confident of another strong performance. Miss Ottley advised that she had been obliged to work harder than anticipated in the early stages to obtain the lead after being crossed shortly after the start. Miss Ottley said that once finding the front near the 1400 metres she had been able to gain some respite when easing the speed of the race however had been challenged for a short distance by LYNRYD SKYNRYD near the 1100 metres. Miss Ottley further advised that she felt her best option was to maintain the lead and control the speed of the race and after withstanding the brief challenge by LYNRYD SKYNRYD she had again been able to ease the speed of the race. However that runner had commenced to over-race near the 800 metres despite the efforts of its driver causing the speed of the race to again increase with the effort eventually taking its toll on her horse. After considering her explanation, Stewards were satisfied her actions were not unreasonable in the circumstances and took the matter no further.

PROVISEUR - late scratching on veterinary advice at 6.32pm after being found to be lame in the preliminary. Stood down pending a veterinary clearance prior to resuming.

EMERALD ABBEY - raced wide without cover throughout.

MR CASH MAN - raced wide with cover throughout. Driver N Williamson reported he did not release the removable deafeners due to having the field covered.

TANGIER TANGO - B Morris was unable to fulfil his driving engagement on this mare due to being injured and was replaced by C Ferguson. B Morris was advised a medical clearance would be required prior to him driving next.

LYNRYD SKYNRYD - over-raced middle stages. Stewards questioned Junior driver K Tomlinson (assisted by M Williamson) regarding the tactics she adopted in the middle stages. Miss Tomlinson advised after racing with cover through the early stages she had been left to race parked from the 1400 metres. Miss Tomlinson added that LYNRYD SKYNRYD is one paced and is a horse that performs best when racing handy so attempted to find the lead near the 1100 metres rather than hand up to the improving EMERALD ABBEY and risk being shuffled back. Miss Tomlinson further added that after being unsuccessful in her challenge for the lead from SO ART I she had then taken hold of her runner to allow it some respite however the gelding had commenced to over-race despite her efforts from the 800 metres causing the speed of the race to increase sooner than she had anticipated. After considering Miss Tomlinson's explanation, Stewards were satisfied her tactics were not unreasonable in the circumstances and took the matter no further.

ARCHAIC LUSTRE - out of position at the start. A warning was placed on the barrier record of the gelding

[Lightning Blue]

16 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Full on driving in Race 7. Wonder if some will be reminded of their obligations?

 

10 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

I've seen more criticism on these threads about the very 'quiet' NZ driving generally (sit back then run on late

I might add that in Race 9 Invercargill , they reverted back to that old 'all sit back until inside the quarter mile' sort of thing (some only getting going the last 100m )

The tote favourite ran 'Stone motherless last' again as did the tote fav in race 7. Not even getting a crack at them this time, Hard up on the back of the leader of Mr Orange (who ran 4th) when they reached the finishing line.

Personally I much prefer the 'style' of race 7 Invercargill ,  ( I do love open air racing though lol ) with the favourite driven by SamO pressed to the front early in race. At least it had a 'Chance' to win.  much prefer that as a punter. 

[Lightning Blue]

4 minutes ago, Double R said:

LYNRYD SKYNRYD - over-raced middle stages. Stewards questioned Junior driver K Tomlinson (assisted by M Williamson) regarding the tactics she adopted in the middle stages. Miss Tomlinson advised after racing with cover through the early stages she had been left to race parked from the 1400 metres. Miss Tomlinson added that LYNRYD SKYNRYD is one paced and is a horse that performs best when racing handy so attempted to find the lead near the 1100 metres

Thanks for the stipe report post Robert. I do believe this is the horse causing the issues. (held the 3 wide train out there a lap out) , still I'm fine with it.

Happy and Karrots might be right and it was kami-kaze like possibly,  Or i'd rather say 'Do or Die' and is much better to Do really isn't it ? lol...... not die wondering lol.

[Double R]

4 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

Thanks for the stipe report post Robert. I do believe this is the horse causing the issues. (held the 3 wide train out there a lap out) , still I'm fine with it.

Happy and Karrots might be right and it was kami-kaze like possibly,  Or i'd rather say 'Do or Die' and is much better to Do really isn't it ? lol...... not die wondering lol.

Agree LB.

It was just one of those things in racing, where Lynryd Skynryd got fired up when attempting to get to the lead, and has not able to relax after that, inspite of the driver best efforts to restrain. If the leader had let Lynryd Skynryd go to the front, I am picking it would have compounded at the 600 metres, and carted So Art I, back through the field.

I am sure LB, you will have experienced the feeling of a horses pulling itself into the ground, and pulling double at the 600 metres, and then it is gone in the blinking of an eye.

[karrotsishere]

44 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

 I've seen more criticism on these threads about the very 'quiet' NZ driving generally (sit back then run on late sort of thing, unless you are Mark or Nat)  , so generally no good complaining when they all want to get up there and have a bit of a dig .

Ok so you are referring to other posters here as don’t think Iv complained about a quiet drive. Infact just a few days ago posted saying not sure why American Dealer was put 4 back on rail oppose waiting to get 1-1 cover. However straight after that stated clearly BUT loved the fact he was given a nice easy run for a change.

I maintain the same lines. Don’t like stable driving and don’t like kamikaze driving.

And Iv said this before & Ill say it again, IF Sweetie is driven just once kamikaze driving for lead. That driver will have the reins taken off them next start. No more.

Each to our own. I know we have different views on the above which is tots fine 😃

[Double R]

15 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Ok so you are referring to other posters here as don’t think Iv complained about a quiet drive. Infact just a few days ago posted saying not sure why American Dealer was put 4 back on rail oppose waiting to get 1-1 cover. However straight after that stated clearly BUT loved the fact he was given a nice easy run for a change.

I maintain the same lines. Don’t like stable driving and don’t like kamikaze driving.

And Iv said this before & Ill say it again, IF Sweetie is driven just once kamikaze driving for lead. That driver will have the reins taken off them next start. No more.

Each to our own. I know we have different views on the above which is tots fine 😃

Karrots, it is sometimes not the drivers fault, as horses sometimes latch on, and want to go, and the driver has no control.

LB and I have experiences of these situations, and know it is beyond our control, and does make us look awful drivers, but that is racing. Thankfully, this does not happen very often.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Double R

[Lightning Blue]

9 minutes ago, Double R said:

I am sure LB, you will have experienced the feeling of a horses pulling itself into the ground, and pulling double at the 600 metres, and then it is gone in the blinking of an eye.

The Old adage was "The harder they Pull , the Faster they Stop" .  true words IMO. 

In the 80's and 90's the horses pulled very hard. Every second race you were in it seemed, one would get a good 'work-out' trying to hold back 450 kg of 'Horse-power' that was wanting to get on with the job. Trouble was the races were being run in 2.00 to 2.03 mile rates generally.

This century , they have cut em' loose !! no time to pull anymore. Most of the Brisbane drivers are 'skinny' lasses and lads. The old 'Strong ' Boys are ALL gone. 1.55. to 1.57 mile rates generally run all the time, and just short distance racing (1 mile and 2100m) here so horses can line up every week too. 

So there's No time for horses 'pulling' anymore. They just roll along, and anyone of any stature can have a drive. !!  excellent really I guess.? Races are full of young ladies now . They wouldn't of enjoyed some of those Pulling horses last century that took horse-people like Wolfie and Bob Cameron to control , that's for sure.

[karrotsishere]

26 minutes ago, Double R said:

Karrots, it is sometimes not the drivers fault, as horses sometimes latch on, and want to go, and the driver has no control.

LB and I have experiences of these situations, and know it is beyond our control, and does make us look awful drivers, but that is racing. Thankfully, this does not happen very often.

Yes I understand the difference. The kamikaze driving for lead EARLY as per the race I am referring to, I did not see any horse over-race. It was the drivers that were going for it. 

New game. We have Sweetie, one of DR's horses & an imaginary horse of LB's in a race. DR's horse & LB's horse drivers can giddy up, go horsey kamikazi drive for lead. The further the better. Sweetie & her driver can smoke pipe sitting out of it behind them 😄

Edited November 24, 2021 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

1 hour ago, Lightning Blue said:

Thanks for the stipe report post Robert. I do believe this is the horse causing the issues. (held the 3 wide train out there a lap out) , still I'm fine with it.

Happy and Karrots might be right and it was kami-kaze like possibly,  Or i'd rather say 'Do or Die' and is much better to Do really isn't it ? lol...... not die wondering lol.

To clarify, not talking about the horse driven by K Tomlinson. When I refer to Kamikazi driving for lead, Im always referring to the beginning of the race. Fine to challenge during. Just don't like to see horses as DR term "going like the clappers" for any further than a max of 200 metres at the start of a race. Past that 200 metres to me then becomes Kamikaze driving for lead.

[Lightning Blue]

9 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

It was the drivers that were going for it. 

New game. We have Sweetie, one of DR's horses & an imaginary horse of LB's in a race. DR's horse & LB's horse drivers can giddy up, go horsey kamikazi drive for lead. The further the better. Sweetie & her driver can smoke pipe sitting out of it behind them

Yeah, that was great. Driver's should go for it every race. It all comes down to how the horse is trained. here's some examples.......

When visiting Roy Purdons place in early days at Clevedon , used to witness Owen, Mark , Barry and staff always doing 4 horse 'Fast' work. The 4 horses changing positions as they went round , swapping death-seat for the lead , for the trail over distance. Very impressive ! paid off then still paying off 4 decades later. (most trainers do 2 horse fast-work at a moderate tempo)

Vinnie Knight was the best in Oz . He 'galloped' his horses 'hard' in training . One out in the gig at great speed. Even on race-day morning for some. Some horses went sore doing this as the harness tracks are a bit hard , so not many do that. Then Because the horse could physically go faster than others, he said it 'Psychologically' could as well !!! when he put the hopples back on. and they did.  And his horses won heaps of races. 

Another trainer I worked with ,with some of the best horses going, Used to ALWAYS put the best horse in front. If you pulled out from behind during the fast work , he would pull the stick ! lol.... always made sure he was in front throughout. One day I got close and he whacked my horse to keep it back lol...... Led and won Many , many races.

In Brisbane , we raced 3 days per week, the other 4 days took 6 horses to Albion Park (to train on the track) tried to teach them to completely drop the bit while trailing the fast-work buddy. That does away with the pulling and stopping  we were talking about with RobertR.  And then Dive Bomb the front horse, from the furlong. This worked fine. Horses didn't pull . weren't over-taxed like all those previous trainers examples, so then could line up Every Week for a race) And we Dive-Bombed many a great win. Hope Sweetie is a good Dive Bomber .!!!!!

there you go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   4 completely different training methods on the track . Lots of stuff goes on off the track too !!! lol.....

[Double R]

23 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Yes I understand the difference. The kamikaze driving for lead EARLY as per the race I am referring to, I did not see any horse over-race. It was the drivers that were going for it. 

New game. We have Sweetie, one of DR's horses & an imaginary horse of LB's in a race. DR's horse & LB's horse drivers can giddy up, go horsey kamikazi drive for lead. The further the better. Sweetie & her driver can smoke pipe sitting out of it behind them 😄

That is the normal pattern of a race Karrots. It is called "jockeying for position". You have to take advantage of a good draw, if you can, or you relinquish the advantage at the start, and rely on racing luck to fall for you.

My horse maybe sitting in behind LB's horse, and he has used some energy to lead, but he may still be too good for me.

Welcome to our world Karrots, it is a character building sport for sure!!!

[Lightning Blue]

10 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

4 completely different training methods on the track . Lots of stuff goes on off the track too !!! lol.....

That sounds devious with just saying 'stuff' , but what I meant was things like Swimming, walking, saline drench, shoeing , good feed programs, happy owners, a nice beer....

[karrotsishere]

17 minutes ago, Double R said:

That is the normal pattern of a race Karrots. It is called "jockeying for position". You have to take advantage of a good draw, if you can, or you relinquish the advantage at the start, and rely on racing luck to fall for you.

My horse maybe sitting in behind LB's horse, and he has used some energy to lead, but he may still be too good for me.

Welcome to our world Karrots, it is a character building sport for sure!!!

No your not getting my point. Regarding Republican Party on Karrots weekly Update thread you said this below & Nod replied saying that he "is glad Blair is driving as he rarely gets involved in SPEED DUALS" = KAMI-KAZI driving. The top drivers rarely do it. Iv said on here that both M Purdon & N Ras do not Kamikazi drive for lead. Nod is correct have rarely seen Orange either. Z Butcher is another rarely seen doing. Some other drivers however still do it from time to time as per the race Happy pointed out. Anyway moving on from this subject lol. We can agree to disagree, however here you clearly stated you DID NOT want to see Republican Party going like the CLAPPERS, which Nod took as meaning Speed Dualing, as did I same thing Kami-Kami driving.

"I think it would be of great advantage for Republican Party if there was a scratching, and Willow Bay got back in. It is going to be much easier to get into a safe position to give him the best chance of winning from barrier two, and than having to go like the clappers from barrier one, use up heaps of energy, and may still get crossed, and end up in an awkward place back on the rails."

Cheers.

Robert".

Nod replies saying

"Good point DR.   Only thing I would say is that I am glad  Blair  is driving him because he rarely gets involved in speed duals and always seems to sum things up quickly.  That is why he  is on top of the premiership. It does seem that Franco Indie from the draw will be very hard to beat though".

 

[Lightning Blue]

26 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

To clarify, not talking about the horse driven by K Tomlinson. When I refer to Kamikazi driving for lead, Im always referring to the beginning of the race.

Funnily enough , Sam Ottley gave the lead away quickly early on the fav who drew 2. But when seeing she was going to be 3 back the fence , decided to pull out and go round to the lead before getting hemmed in and potentially shuffled back ??  . Excellent initiative to be honest IMO. with So Art I. 

Of course lyn skyn (Tomlinson) took her on a lap out alas,   and so Sam's horse stopped to run last, but that's the way the cookie goes at times. 

So probably in 'hindsight' (always a great thing). risk getting out from back in the field might of proved more fruitful.? At least she had a go and I like Sam's driving. 

LB rating for the losing drive 8/10 still.....lol.  even though she ran last. Bounced back to win race 9 with a 10/10 drive  !!! go SamO !!!!

[Double R]

48 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

No your not getting my point. Regarding Republican Party on Karrots weekly Update thread you said this below & Nod replied saying that he "is glad Blair is driving as he rarely gets involved in SPEED DUALS" = KAMI-KAZI driving. The top drivers rarely do it. Iv said on here that both M Purdon & N Ras do not Kamikazi drive for lead. Nod is correct have rarely seen Orange either. Z Butcher is another rarely seen doing. Some other drivers however still do it from time to time as per the race Happy pointed out. Anyway moving on from this subject lol. We can agree to disagree, however here you clearly stated you DID NOT want to see Republican Party going like the CLAPPERS, which Nod took as meaning Speed Dualing, as did I same thing Kami-Kami driving.

"I think it would be of great advantage for Republican Party if there was a scratching, and Willow Bay got back in. It is going to be much easier to get into a safe position to give him the best chance of winning from barrier two, and than having to go like the clappers from barrier one, use up heaps of energy, and may still get crossed, and end up in an awkward place back on the rails."

Cheers.

Robert".

Nod replies saying

"Good point DR.   Only thing I would say is that I am glad  Blair  is driving him because he rarely gets involved in speed duals and always seems to sum things up quickly.  That is why he  is on top of the premiership. It does seem that Franco Indie from the draw will be very hard to beat though".

 

Republican Party did have to go like the clappers to endeavour to hold the lead, and ran the second fastest first 180 metres, and surprisingly gave way to stablemate, and then the gamble was on, if one or both of the Allstars came around, and he would have ended up three or four deep on the rails. The Allstars then controlled the race from outside the leader, and surged just before the passing lane, and got the advantage on Republican Party, and the race was over.

A side interest out of that race, both the 8th and 9th horses, Montana DJ, and Street Hawk, ran the last 200 metres, in the same, or very close, to the time of Republican Party. Given that we think a bit of Republican Party, those two might be worth following in the future.