Colleen Negus - Out for 4 Months.

[Happy Sunrise]

She has a paid a penalty for her drive but the stipes report throws up more light into the depths of harness racing. How is the new code of conduct going with claims of sexism in rulings and abusive behaviour.

Mr Negus asked for a replay of a race to be played from an earlier meeting at Cambridge 14 Oct 2021. He demonstrated on the film 3 senior drivers engaging in a dual for the lead culminating in 2 horses breaking with several others being severely checked. He said no drivers were charged. The Committee asked Mr Negus what the relevance of this was to Mrs Negus’ drive at Timaru. Mr Negus said “the perception is that if she (Mrs Negus) was a man we wouldn’t be in this room now”. He said “the Stewards are inconsistent when it comes to charging drivers but when it’s a woman they do”.

 

Mr Negus produced a written statement from the Clerk of the Course at Timaru, Mr Craig Wiggins. Mr Wiggins’s statement says from his position at the 1800m mark he heard Mr Fitzgerald yell “don’t do it Colleen don’t do it” many times along with a lot of head shaking and that other drivers were yelling from behind and this could be heard for a considerable distance. Mr Wiggins has then heard from his assistant Mr William Redwood that abusive language was directed at Mrs Negus and this compelled him to notify Stipendiary Steward Ms Rebecca Haley of this incident.

Further to this matter, Mr Negus notified the Committee he would be requesting a ruling to scratch Mrs Negus’ drive tomorrow (5th Dec) as he was not comfortable having her driving in an unsafe environment. Mr Negus said he is not using this information as an excuse for Mrs Negus ‘ drive, he was happy with her drive but stated the situation was handled very poorly on the day.

Mr Mulcay, the Chief Steward on the day, explained to the hearing the events post-race, and the information and statements the Stewards had over the alleged matter and that an investigation would be proceeding. At this juncture, all parties agreed a full investigation into the matter was warranted and Mr Negus was happy to proceed with the Information at hand and put that matter aside.

 

 

[karrotsishere]

Said this before 9 times out of 10 Kamikaze driving for lead (at beginning of race for a sustained period) ends in tears.

In all serious tho, so she was charged for 4 months. Im not sure what race you refer to, could you please attach the link. Then also the link to the Cambridge race.

Does sound like Double standards tho, IF the information presented is true & accurate. Good on Mr Negus for drawing a comparison. Also sounds like as she is an amateur I think? And the others at Camb were described as Seniors. Iv read before how peeps get the vibe that some more high profile drivers & trainers get off the hook for things a Jnr or amateur driver or smaller trainer or hobby trainer would get pulled up on. Which is again double standards. And also lacks integrity. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Happy Sunrise]

20 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

could you please attach the link.

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=290281&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

And this Cambridge race which I had not watched before is a f**king disgrace.

https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=290853&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

How these stewards operate is farcical. The drivers clearly diminished their chances but no action was taken. If I had bet on the race at Cambridge I would have been baying for blood. The RIB make comment on the sexism claim but nothing in relation to the actual Cambridge race as a comparison because they do not look in a mirror.

The RIB have the gall to say this about the Colleen Negus drive but where is the application of it at Cambridge?

The Rule requires the demonstration of tactics that can, by objective standards, be said to be both reasonable and permissible. Those have to be tactics which can be seen by not only the Stipendiary Stewards but also those present at the racetrack, and in particular by the betting public, to be tactics which are designed to give the horse every chance to finish in the best possible position that it can. 

I tell you what, harness racing is the facing a massive perception problem at the moment. 

[karrotsishere]

Ok thanks for sharing links. The Timaru race, we talked about on the other channel. There was a accusation posted by J Teaz that he had heard that A Fitzgerald had threatened Negus during running. So I posted asking Fitzgerald to come & answer the question if he could. He came & answered & from memory said that he had wanted the lead & had no intention of handing up & made that clear. ALSO that he DID NOT THREATEN Negus at all. Teaz apologised for getting it wrong. 

Re Cambridge race so 3 drivers involved - A Neal, M White, D Ferguson. Never seen A Neal or M White Kamikazi drive for lead early like that. Have seen D Ferguson do it previous. Agree Happy what a mess. A Neal 3 wide then his horse goes into a break, D Ferguson's horse also breaks up later in the runner. Terrible display from all 3. What on earth they are thinking or any driver for that matter as Iv stated previously kamikazi driving for lead for a long time at beginning of race. Dunno as DR & Lightning think its normal & ok. 

Negus went on with it for much much longer. That is the only difference that I can see. Whereas Neal was taken out of it by his own horse breaking up. But I would of expected at a minimum due to the bad look of the race because of this kamikazi driving - then these same horse breaking, that bear minimum drivers would of got a warning, or spoken to, or something or questioned on tactics. Haven't seen stripes report for it so not sure if they did ... ?

[Happy Sunrise]

58 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Haven't seen stripes report for it so not sure if they did ... ?

The clowns at Cambridge drew 1,2 and 3 in the race which makes it even more pathetic.

As for the stipes, couldn't care less. Just like the horse who dropped the bit and lost interest according to Neal.

[Double R]

20 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Ok thanks for sharing links. The Timaru race, we talked about on the other channel. There was a accusation posted by J Teaz that he had heard that A Fitzgerald had threatened Negus during running. So I posted asking Fitzgerald to come & answer the question if he could. He came & answered & from memory said that he had wanted the lead & had no intention of handing up & made that clear. ALSO that he DID NOT THREATEN Negus at all. Teaz apologised for getting it wrong. 

Re Cambridge race so 3 drivers involved - A Neal, M White, D Ferguson. Never seen A Neal or M White Kamikazi drive for lead early like that. Have seen D Ferguson do it previous. Agree Happy what a mess. A Neal 3 wide then his horse goes into a break, D Ferguson's horse also breaks up later in the runner. Terrible display from all 3. What on earth they are thinking or any driver for that matter as Iv stated previously kamikazi driving for lead for a long time at beginning of race. Dunno as DR & Lightning think its normal & ok. 

Negus went on with it for much much longer. That is the only difference that I can see. Whereas Neal was taken out of it by his own horse breaking up. But I would of expected at a minimum due to the bad look of the race because of this kamikazi driving - then these same horse breaking, that bear minimum drivers would of got a warning, or spoken to, or something or questioned on tactics. Haven't seen stripes report for it so not sure if they did ... ?

Great that Mr Negus is standing up, not only for his wife, but the racing public in general, because there does appear to be a leniency given to different participants.

I agree, the emotions, and perhaps in some cases personal rivalry, that is played out on the track, is not acceptable.

What I do see in most races is drivers giving their horses the best possible chance they can from the position they start from, and where they end up after 400 metres.  Generally after 400 metres, and the field has settled, that is when any potential attacker for the lead will launch, and in most cases a short tussle. It is where this tussle extends to 200-300 metres, that what is called on here as Kamikazi type driving, and I would called it lack of judgement, and probably diminishing the chance to fill a higher finishing position.

 

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, karrotsishere said:

There was a accusation posted by J Teaz that he had heard that A Fitzgerald had threatened Negus during running. So I posted asking Fitzgerald to come & answer the question if he could. He came & answered & from memory said that he had wanted the lead & had no intention of handing up & made that clear. ALSO that he DID NOT THREATEN Negus at all. Teaz apologised for getting it wrong. 

Seems like that is one version of events about the threatening.

[karrotsishere]

21 minutes ago, Double R said:

It is where this tussle extends to 200-300 metres, that what is called on here as Kamikazi type driving, and I would called it lack of judgement, and probably diminishing the chance to fill a higher finishing position.

Ok yes that is what I have ALWAYS been talking about re Kamikazi driving. Pleased we are now on the same page 😄

22 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The clowns at Cambridge drew 1,2 and 3 in the race which makes it even more pathetic.

As for the stipes, couldn't care less. Just like the horse who dropped the bit and lost interest according to Neal.

Wow, that's a surprise, not mentioned or warned at all just the performance questioned lol - think that was obvious based on the kamikazi driving. Neal was prob IMO by perception the worst offender going & staying 3 wide. Horse broke for no reason lol. The race was a maiden & that was only its 3rd start. 

As a comparison - this is a very good example for Negus to have brought up - due to fact nothing was said. 

(The only thing can think is that different sets of Stripes, therefore potential different views - different sets of eyes see things slightly different). 

BUT even then still. How could they not even bring this race up, ESP so with 2 galloping runners. I can't think of a reasonable reason. Its clear as daylight to me. But hey the next person might see it different. Which then goes back to my point in brackets.

[Double R]

10 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Ok yes that is what I have ALWAYS been talking about re Kamikazi driving. Pleased we are now on the same page 😄

Wow, that's a surprise, not mentioned or warned at all just the performance questioned lol - think that was obvious based on the kamikazi driving. Neal was prob IMO by perception the worst offender going & staying 3 wide. Horse broke for no reason lol. The race was a maiden & that was only its 3rd start. 

As a comparison - this is a very good example for Negus to have brought up - due to fact nothing was said. 

(The only thing can think is that different sets of Stripes, therefore potential different views - different sets of eyes see things slightly different). 

BUT even then still. How could they not even bring this race up, ESP so with 2 galloping runners. I can't think of a reasonable reason. Its clear as daylight to me. But hey the next person might see it different. Which then goes back to my point in brackets.

I think most of us racing people see it with an open mind, and all we want to see is consistent decisions. If they can pickup a driver having his foot out of the footrest for a period just after the start, until the horse gets balanced up, then surely Kamikazi driving can be spotted during the race. It is always good to observe where the respective horses finish. A very good pointer to the ability of a horse is if it is still there at the finish, and perhaps even winning. that is what is called the wow factor!!!

[karrotsishere]

15 minutes ago, Double R said:

If they can pickup a driver having his foot out of the footrest for a period just after the start, until the horse gets balanced up, then surely Kamikazi driving can be spotted during the race. 

Bang on the money here DR. 

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

She has a paid a penalty for her drive but the stipes report throws up more light into the depths of harness racing. How is the new code of conduct going with claims of sexism in rulings and abusive behaviour.

Mr Negus asked for a replay of a race to be played from an earlier meeting at Cambridge 14 Oct 2021. He demonstrated on the film 3 senior drivers engaging in a dual for the lead culminating in 2 horses breaking with several others being severely checked. He said no drivers were charged. The Committee asked Mr Negus what the relevance of this was to Mrs Negus’ drive at Timaru. Mr Negus said “the perception is that if she (Mrs Negus) was a man we wouldn’t be in this room now”. He said “the Stewards are inconsistent when it comes to charging drivers but when it’s a woman they do”.

You know what, now that you have brought this to my attention, Im not sure that at Cambridge the Stripes pull up drivers for Kamikazi driving much in the recent past. Can def think of 1 incident were D Ferguson Kamikazi drove a horse & wasn't questioned. Prob think of a few more times too. 

So perhaps this isn't a case of sexism. Perhaps as a comparison Cambridge Stripes need to start calling out drivers for Kamikazi driving. 

[Lightning Blue]

3 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The clowns at Cambridge drew 1,2 and 3 in the race which makes it even more pathetic.

As for the stipes

You are being quite unfair on the drivers IMO. Driving poor horses is a very difficult task. They let them roll early to try and keep them balanced.

The horse Andy Neal was driving (Montana) , for Barry Purdon was even hopping off-stride at workouts the commentator said during the race in question ? . It was exceptionally erratic , as was the leader (Loutenent.) It jumped out of it's gear veering off for No Reason when in the lead. Just a shame that both these poor gaited horses were in the same race. ( when shouldn't be in any race) causing all that carnage. 

2 Very Poor horses. making the drivers look bad (especially in your eyes) Stewards action should of been to Immeadiately require 2 more officiated trials from each of them , completed without incident , before being allowed to race again. 

[Blackie]

It’s called racing for a reason.

The leader has no right to own the racetrack than anyone else in the race.

You either accept a challenge when you’re out there or you don’t, some of the best races are when they run time and it’s competitive.

My ten cents worth.

[karrotsishere]

Here is the full report. It's an interesting read. Be interesting what the final outcome is re who it was if someone actually did say something abusive to her.

https://racingintegrityboard.org.nz/decisions/timaru-hrc-3-october-2021-r1-heard-4-december-2021-at-addington-colleen-negus/

 

[Double R]

30 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

You are being quite unfair on the drivers IMO. Driving poor horses is a very difficult task. They let them roll early to try and keep them balanced.

The horse Andy Neal was driving (Montana) , for Barry Purdon was even hopping off-stride at workouts the commentator said during the race in question ? . It was exceptionally erratic , as was the leader (Loutenent.) It jumped out of it's gear veering off for No Reason when in the lead. Just a shame that both these poor gaited horses were in the same race. ( when shouldn't be in any race) causing all that carnage. 

2 Very Poor horses. making the drivers look bad (especially in your eyes) Stewards action should of been to Immeadiately require 2 more officiated trials from each of them , completed without incident , before being allowed to race again. 

Something I have always thought in the last twenty years or more LB, the qualifying times are far too high. Qualifying mile rates of 2.05 or 2.06, just doesn't hack on raceday on all weather tracks, when you need to be able to run around the 2.00 mile rate for distances over 2000 metres, and distances under that distance, 1.58, and that is a conservative figure, to be competitive.

Just my thoughts on qualifying times.

[Lightning Blue]

Feel sorry for Mrs Negus myself . Seemed a very 'underpowered' horse she was driving . no wonder it was in an amateur drivers race.

But you can't keep pressing like that and not draw attention lol. Stipes appear to have laid a charge /penalty so are on the job. All good. 

** As for abuse , well she has to report what she heard that she didn't like if offended. There Used to be a fair bit of cussing that I remember lol. 

Funnily enough I asked Grant Dixon (a leading Brisbane Trainer ) about it the other day . and he said " no-one says anything these days during the running, there's no time to get the words out" lol........ 

Best thing would be for Amateur races to be a NON-TOTE affair , so the drivers can have their fun, and the betting public doesn't lose money and start grizzling about the amateur performance they are watching each week.  Seems inherent to me with amateur in the name lol.

[karrotsishere]

1 of the peeps they called who had driven horse previously referred to horse as a slug lol. She was under driving instructions to go forward to lead & not let anything pass, BUT not plan B. Have to 1/2 wonder if her husband feels partly responsible due to that. Or he really doesn’t see anything wrong with the drive as they both stated.

It was the the horse person (white horse) that heard Fitzgerald yell no, no to her & shake his head. But it was his assisant I think that heard abuse & therefore reported it.

From what Fitzgerald posted, I believe it wasn’t him, it must of come from someone else. As also reported by the white horse person there was a lot of yelling.

Me too DR. Tots agree, far to easy to qualify. Times have changed time to lower it.

Edited December 8, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Happy Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

You are being quite unfair on the drivers IMO. Driving poor horses is a very difficult task.

Then Colleen should be let off?

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, Lightning Blue said:

But you can't keep pressing like that and not draw attention lol. Stipes appear to have laid a charge /penalty so are on the job. All good. 

 

5 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Then Colleen should be let off?

I posted this above earlier , I would suggest stipes can make that call . That's their job. I Always say 'Blame the Horse' no matter what when you're in the stewards room lol

If Mrs Negus horse had a bit more 'get up and go' , she mightn't have to spend 4 months thinking about it. 

Might be a training error ?...... (having that horse in training) 1 win in first 100 starts odd lol . I would of said The 'Dream is over " before it turned 8 yold and found the owners something else to race .