The Race

[karrotsishere]

Thought this Race as will be the largest stake in NZ Harness needs its own thread. Feel free to post both positives & concerns about the concept. As there will be both.

Latest update on The Race as per Boxseat

1. McCarthy’s have said they will NOT buy a slot, however they are very keen to have King Of Swing come out for it, for their stable rep, not Expensive Ego.

2. Self Assured will be aimed for it.

3. There’s been a lot of interest in it by potential slot buyers - including Australian owners talking to Americans who think an opportunity could be to bring out an American horse to race in it (as well as other races Australasia that time) to potentially set horse up for a stud career Down Under.

4. Slot hopefuls must apply by putting in an application, which is picked based on how much marketing they can do for the slot. If more than 10 not all will be selected. Sign up is 3 years BUT slot holders can on-sell during that time. 

5. A couple of big stables have expressed interest, as too have a couple of big studs.

6. Studs would be a great option to buy a slot, so 1 of their sires offspring could potentially run in that slot.

7. Cambridge are fab at marketing. (Just need work on running the big event & upgrading some of the older facilities (sky lounge is great tho).

8. Not costing industry anything as slot owners pay + a top up from host Camb club.

9. Jewels was taken from Camb so a replacement for them.

10. The Race will be run in early April so weather will be nice. Unlike the Jewels when it is winter & cold then.

http://therace.nz

Edited December 29, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Royal Nod]

6 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

8. Not costing industry anything as slot owners pay + a top up from host Camb club.

I understood HRNZ were putting up 150k.  Can anyone confirm?

I am against any industry funding as stakes are so poor now and this will only benefit a few wealthy participants 

[Royal Nod]

6 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

. Jewels was taken from Camb so a replacement for them.

Don't get me started Karrots.  The Jewels was a fantastic event that a lot of people at all levels could get involved in.

The Jewels was originally meant to be shared around the country.  It should have been shared between Cambridge, Ashburton and Southland.

HRNZ made terrible changes such as moving away from mile racing and taking it off Ashburton.

A true master class in how to destroy a great concept.

[Royal Nod]

I should say I am in favour of the concept but it should be a sweepstake as originally announced.  It's ridiculous to put industry funding into an event that will only benefit a few wealthy participants. 

[Guest Wilfred]

3 minutes ago, Royal Nod said:

I should say I am in favour of the concept but it should be a sweepstake as originally announced.  It's ridiculous to put industry funding into an event that will only benefit a few wealthy participants. 

Well said.

[karrotsishere]

1 hour ago, Royal Nod said:

I understood HRNZ were putting up 150k.  Can anyone confirm?

I am against any industry funding as stakes are so poor now and this will only benefit a few wealthy participants 

Oh goodie got a response so not just here talking to myself.

Guerin def said on Boxseat that the host was putting up $150k.

Also in his article on HRNZ it said this.

Harness Racing New Zealand programmed the race as part of their radical overhaul of the New Zealand calendar for 2022 and the idea has now been picked up by the Waikato-Bay Of Plenty Harness Racing Club WHO will SELL slots for $75,000 each for a minimum three-year term AND ADD THEN $150,000 to the stake.

[karrotsishere]

57 minutes ago, Royal Nod said:

Don't get me started Karrots.  The Jewels was a fantastic event that a lot of people at all levels could get involved in.

The Jewels was originally meant to be shared around the country.  It should have been shared between Cambridge, Ashburton and Southland.

HRNZ made terrible changes such as moving away from mile racing and taking it off Ashburton.

A true master class in how to destroy a great concept.

100% agree. I really loved the Jewels. Remember was so excited about them, started a thread 2 months out lol. Really liked how horses who raced got to qualify, therefore a horse like Sweety Lewey if managed to qualify fair & square would get a chance. 

But also with that recall peeps saying it cost the industry too much. 

[Lightning Blue]

7 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

4. Slot hopefuls must apply by putting in an application, which is picked based on how much marketing they can do for the slot. If more than 10 not all will be selected. Sign up is 3 years BUT slot holders can on-sell during that time.

The larger breeding studs should swoop in to get the exposure . Advertising at it's greatest for them. Companies could use it as a tax loop, and have an investment .

Even trotting Clubs around NZ could buy a Slot ?? If 75 members chipped in $1000 each , they could be potentially racing in a share of one of NZ greatest Pacers for One day a year . The prize earned shared between the Slot owner and the 'Real' owner. Imagine a share in South Coast Arden for the day ?? I'd chip $1000 for that chance ., and be quite happy to race an amazing horse for the day and get 1k back , 2k, or 0k . A great chance at glory for the Poor as well as the Wealthy lol...... 

13 minutes ago, Royal Nod said:

  It's ridiculous to put industry funding into an event that will only benefit a few wealthy participants.

$150, 000 put in by the host club. Well worth it to attarct the best horses in the nation and a lot of interest to their racecourse. 10 slots at $75, 000 each to make up the rest of the $900,000 pot.  All the participants benefit , not just the wealthy . 

[karrotsishere]

24 minutes ago, Wilfred said:

Well said.

Wilfred feel like Im picking on you, so sorry about that.

Just wanted to point out you hated the Jewels, so not sure why you are liking Nods post re Jewels being taken away 🤔

And didn't think you liked any BIG races anyway, unless its in your neck of the woods e.g. Hannon Memorial. 

If The Race was in your neck of the Woods would you be for or against it? Genuine question.

[Double R]

50 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Wilfred feel like Im picking on you, so sorry about that.

Just wanted to point out you hated the Jewels, so not sure why you are liking Nods post re Jewels being taken away 🤔

And didn't think you liked any BIG races anyway, unless its in your neck of the woods e.g. Hannon Memorial. 

If The Race was in your neck of the Woods would you be for or against it? Genuine question.

I am in favour of the concept, but not for open class horses.

As I see it right now, and we are only three months away from when the horses can start to be claimed by slot holders. Of course, before then preliminary negotiations will have been well and truly be underway, as who would want to commit to a slot if in the end all the good race winning chances have gone.

My list of open class New Zealand horses that I think are capable of being competitive in the Race, right now are, BD Joe, Bettor Twist, Krug, Self Assured, and South Coast Arden. That is it. Yes, there maybe a couple come from Australia, but who knows with what the world has been through in the last two years, and continues to roll on with new variants popping up.

I propose the race be for horses up to rating 75 horses, based in N.Z. That would allow for a wider radius of horses throughout all regions of N.Z. to have possible runner in the event, and hence generate more interest throughout the country.

Just my "old codger" thoughts.

[Royal Nod]

2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

100% agree. I really loved the Jewels. Remember was so excited about them, started a thread 2 months out lol. Really liked how horses who raced got to qualify, therefore a horse like Sweety Lewey if managed to qualify fair & square would get a chance. 

But also with that recall peeps saying it cost the industry too much. 

Yes was worth about $200 k per race originally but as HRNZ finances took a turn for the worse it became unaffordable.  Hopefully it can be resurrected in the future because was a fantastic event.  Still think Cambridge should improve their every day stakes before they go putting $150k into a single race.

[Guest Wilfred]

11 minutes ago, Royal Nod said:

Yes was worth about $200 k per race originally but as HRNZ finances took a turn for the worse it became unaffordable.  Hopefully it can be resurrected in the future because was a fantastic event.  Still think Cambridge should improve their every day stakes before they go putting $150k into a single race.

The original intent of the jewels was great. But it lost its way. The big stables started to dominate, the original idea of moving the jewels around the country was abandoned, and the small guys and clubs didn't benefit.

Cambridge has real issues.   Lack of horse numbers, lack of opportunities for juniors, poor stakes etc. It needs to start with the basics first, not go for the glitz and glamour. Honest decent heartland racing is the foundation of growth. It's about priorities 

[Lightning Blue]

37 minutes ago, Double R said:

I think are capable of being competitive in the Race, right now are, BD Joe, Bettor Twist, Krug, Self Assured, and South Coast Arden.

I guess it comes down to whether they let 3 year olds in the race , AKUTA will be dominant .

You need the Very Best in the country for a race of this magnitude. Not a hope in the world of getting off the ground with 'restricted' class horses.

Other Jewel's Day placegetters who raced well at Cambridge last Winter and have come back very well , in Hot n Treacherous, Laver and Need you Now could fight for a spot.

Bad to The Bone seems to have dropped off a bit, but Steel The Show of Dunn's is improving?.  Race distance is what?

[karrotsishere]

24 minutes ago, Royal Nod said:

Still think Cambridge should improve their every day stakes before they go putting $150k into a single race.

Fair enuff re $150k to go towards stake. So lets see how far $150k would go. If we put say $1k towards 150 races that be $150k. Say approx 10 races per meeting. That would carry us over 15 race meetings. Anyone know how many race meetings Cambridge has in a year?

If I had to say where Cambridge to put that $150k Id say facilitates e.g. there is in the main stand a back area part of it & its old & rinky dink (def needs an upgrade). Also the Club House, could do with an upgrade, its kind of a lil bit bogan. (Don't like to be mean about it, but it is what it is).

I just like how they are trying something new & if it doesn't work after 1 year they plan to pull the plug. If it works then they hope to introduce a Trot race too.

Edited December 30, 2021 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

40 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

I guess it comes down to whether they let 3 year olds in the race , AKUTA will be dominant .

Hot n Treacherous, Laver and Need you Now could fight for a spot.

Bad to The Bone seems to have dropped off a bit, but Steel The Show of Dunn's is improving?.  Race distance is what?

They said on Boxseat that Akuta won't be targeted for it. Cant remember why. 

Agree Laver, Need You Know, Hot N Treacherous could be potentials.

Get DR's point re up to R75 ish. Kind of like the Country Cups, have to be under a certain rating when starting out in them or something. Food for thought. Guess the Big names attract headlines & attention therefore more opportunity to market The Race & more oncourse & turnover ... ? And selling tickets to event. 

Remember Field Commander on here said what should the name be & suggested The Pirongia didn't get it at time of FC posting. But get it now lol. Pirongia is a name of a Mountain not too far away, & Everest is the name of Gallop race. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Double R]

11 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

I guess it comes down to whether they let 3 year olds in the race , AKUTA will be dominant .

You need the Very Best in the country for a race of this magnitude. Not a hope in the world of getting off the ground with 'restricted' class horses.

Other Jewel's Day placegetters who raced well at Cambridge last Winter and have come back very well , in Hot n Treacherous, Laver and Need you Now could fight for a spot.

Bad to The Bone seems to have dropped off a bit, but Steel The Show of Dunn's is improving?.  Race distance is what?

Hi LB.

The race distance is 2200 metres.

I don't think there are the number of good quality open class horses that would make the race competitive. Of course, that is assuming the five horses I highlighted in my earlier post are able to run, and not injured, or out of form.

The three year olds will have only turned that age four months before the race.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Double R

[Double R]

10 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

They said on Boxseat that Akuta won't be targeted for it. Cant remember why. 

Agree Laver, Need You Know, Hot N Treacherous could be potentials.

Get DR's point re up to R75 ish. Kind of like the Country Cups, have to be under a certain rating when starting out in them or something. Food for thought. Guess the Big names attract headlines & attention therefore more opportunity to market The Race & more oncourse & turnover ... ? And selling tickets to event. 

Remember Field Commander on here said what should the name be & suggested The Pirongia didn't get it at time of FC posting. But get it now lol. Pirongia is a name of a Mountain not too far away, & Everest is the name of Gallop race. 

As I have said before, I am in favour of the race, and think it would have been better to start off with a lower stake, and lower slot holders amounts, to give N.Z. Harness Racing the chance to grab onto a new concept here, and move forward.

Of the potential runners, with the five I have suggested, and LB's four, ie. BD Joe, Bettor Twist, Hot NTreacherous, Krug, Laver, Need You Now, Self Assured, South Coast Arden, Steel The Show.

Has anyone have anymore thoughts?.

 

 

[karrotsishere]

49 minutes ago, Double R said:

As I have said before, I am in favour of the race, and think it would have been better to start off with a lower stake, and lower slot holders amounts, to give N.Z. Harness Racing the chance to grab onto a new concept here, and move forward.

Of the potential runners, with the five I have suggested, and LB's four, ie. BD Joe, Bettor Twist, Hot NTreacherous, Krug, Laver, Need You Now, Self Assured, South Coast Arden, Steel The Show.

Has anyone have anymore thoughts?.

After sleeping on it & hearing feedback, Im still in favour BUT now also agree that the Club/Host should not have put in as much $150k as what they have. Zero or max say $50k. Felt the $150k would be better spent 1st on updating the public facilitate that last forever & can be potentially be used every race meeting. Over 1 race once a year.  

Cambridge seem to have a meeting approx every 2nd week. So be approx 30 ish meetings annually guesstimate from that basis. If $150k used towards stake at $1k each race add on, would go into lifting 1/2 of their race meetings annually. 

So Id be also in favour of that too, but 1st & foremost upgrade of facilities. As its more permanent. And are used by all. 

Guerin said King Of Swing - McCarthy's are super keen. Re Covid borders open then. Even if not they could still send him over. 

Mike brought up another good point on another thread. He's in favour but has 1 concern if theres a dominant horse e.g. Laz, that wins The Race multiple times. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by karrotsishere

[Double R]

27 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

After sleeping on it & hearing feedback, Im still in favour BUT now also agree that the Club/Host should not have put in as much $150k as what they have. Zero or max say $50k. Felt the $150k would be better spent 1st on updating the public facilitate that last forever & can be potentially be used every race meeting. Over 1 race once a year.  

Cambridge seem to have a meeting approx every 2nd week. So be approx 30 ish meetings annually guesstimate from that basis. If $150k used towards stake at $1k each race add on, would go into lifting 1/2 of their race meetings annually. 

So Id be also in favour of that too, but 1st & foremost upgrade of facilities. As its more permanent. And are used by all. 

Guerin said King Of Swing - McCarthy's are super keen. Re Covid borders open then. Even if not they could still send him over. 

Mike brought up another good point on another thread. He's in favour but has 1 concern if theres a dominant horse e.g. Laz, that wins The Race multiple times. 

Out of left field, how about Sundees Sun?

[Lightning Blue]

8 hours ago, Double R said:

Out of left field, how about Sundees Sun?

Quite a good one is old Sundees Son for sure , but at the 2200m distance you said the 'Race' is over , they (the best pacers)  will come rattling  home in 54 seconds 1/2 mile and 26. last quarter.

He would not be able to trot that . April this year he won the Group 1 Anzac Cup easily at 2200m trotting a 57 sec half and 29 home. 

Unfortunately he would be 30m back from Self Assured and South Coast Arden.

sounds like 3 year olds won't be in then either . South Coast Arden the NZ FFA winner starting to look the one ?? (had that BIG Cambridge Jewels Win too) 

[karrotsishere]

My list of 10 would be the Top 7 in NZ CUP excluding Copy That (injury) & Classie B as Steel the Show is more inform runner of stable atm. Have replaced Copy That with Aussie King of Swing. Then top 3 y-o now 4 yo Krug, followed by BD Joe G1 winner. Lastly Bettors Twist multiple G1 winner to add some females and the final spot is open between any of these female horses Need You Know / Life a Beach / Belle of Montana / Sylish Memphis / Darling Me / Honey Queen

IF King Of Swing & Bettors Twist race in it. BE Brother against Sister G1 NZ richest race. Would that be a first??

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10.Need You Know - Lifes A Beach - Stylish Memphis - Belle of Montana - Darling Me - Honey Queen

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

5 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

IF King Of Swing & Bettors Twist race in it. BE Brother against Sister G1 NZ richest race. Would that be a first??

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10.Need You Know - Lifes A Beach - Stylish Memphis - Belle of Montana - Darling Me - Honey Queen

Editing my TOP 10 list to add in Pembroke Playboy - the Forgotten horse. Actually think quite a strong potential field. 

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10. PEMBROOKE PLAYBOY

Edited January 1, 2022 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

On 1/1/2022 at 4:22 PM, karrotsishere said:

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10. PEMBROOKE PLAYBOY

Another edit to list. To add Alta Wiseguy but as E1 at this stage. 

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10. PEMBROOKE PLAYBOY

E1. ALTA WISEGUY

[karrotsishere]

19 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Another edit to list. To add Alta Wiseguy but as E1 at this stage. 

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10. PEMBROOKE PLAYBOY

E1. ALTA WISEGUY

1 last update to list, include Di Caprio as E2. Another forgotten horse via injury making his way back to the track with a nom at Nelson.

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10. PEMBROOKE PLAYBOY

E1. ALTA WISEGUY

E2 DI CAPRIO

[Lightning Blue]

3 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

1 last update to list, include Di Caprio as E2. Another forgotten horse via injury making his way back to the track with a nom at Nelson.

1. KING OF SWING

2. SELF ASSURED

3. SOUTH COAST ARDEN

4. STEEL THE SHOW

5. LAVER

6. KANGO

7. KRUG

8. BD JOE

9. BETTORS TWIST

10. PEMBROOKE PLAYBOY

E1. ALTA WISEGUY

E2 DI CAPRIO

Nice field there Karrots!!  , but not like you to leave the North stranded .with very few runners lol.

'Bad to the Bone' and 'HotNTreacherous' were both 4 year old Jewels placed in Winter, both beating Laver and Copy That home too, and 'Dancetime' wins now and then and is from a leading stable.

So those three will be fighting for a slot as well in all likelihood.....