I understand what you're saying RJB. Darren Weir won group 1's ... but now folk know what was possibly happening in some cases behind the scenes it puts a whole new focus on it. True Weir.. and KP may not have acted that way with every horse or may have, who knows, that's the issue now with any owners, trainers etc. that want to do business with KP. How he ever thought that what he was doing was okay, or even needed with a filly, even when it was quiet and in a stall, I don't know, and as NG alluded to, age is immaterial, I know 14 and 15 year olds that would understand and nurture a horse with more understanding than he showed. What I definitely do know .. it makes me dislike rodeo even more.