Hesi Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 https://loveracing.nz/News/43913/WeighIn-22January.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 A hell of a lot of loose talk and hyperbole(BS), especially from the usual suspects like Cameron George and surprisingly Paul Wilcox Some points that were not made clear in yesterday's announcement, the move of the Railway to Karaka brings G1 status to that night which brings a range of world benefits. Someone can explain On one hand Paul Wilcox talks about the folly of 2 day carnivals in supporting the move from 2 days to 1 SUPER day but seems to ignore that Karaka is becoming a 2 day carnival, the second day a very much padded out event. Haven't we made that mistake before. It would appear that apart from the slot and sweepstake races, that Entain is underpinning the funding, so that first 5 years becomes even more crucial It is their money, they take the hit if it does not work so I suppose they have the right to make the call. I'm tending to come around to Mardi's way of thinking, will this all grow wagering on NZ racing. Where is the investment in infrastucture. We have sub standard tracks all over NZ. I would also question to what extent this all draws top horses from Aus, we have only ever had one race in NZ and that was Starcraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Hesi said: Some points that were not made clear in yesterday's announcement, the move of the Railway to Karaka brings G1 status to that night which brings a range of world benefits. Someone can explain Having a G1 on the day means it will be eligible for the world tote pool for the day. Edited January 22 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 55 minutes ago, Hesi said: It would appear that apart from the slot and sweepstake races, that Entain is underpinning the funding, I haven't seen where that is indicated? Great if it is but if it's coming from NZTAB revenue at the expense of stakes funding etc., then not so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 22 minutes ago, curious said: Having a G1 on the day means it will be eligible for the world tote pool for the day. All races or just the G1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I would also question to what extent this all draws top horses from Aus They wont necessarily be 'top horses' , Hesi ...just quality performers racing over there having been bought at Karaka. Stake money here will never rival NSW and VIC offerings, and shouldn't. NZ will always be a 'feeder' market to the big boys with bigger populations. What it will do is attract more Aus and Asian investors in our bloodstock - great for the breeders and related services. The crucial thing is that our network of racetracks gets upgraded to provide a much better 'on-course' experience. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Aussies have their big Spring racing, then a 4 month break before they start on their Autumn carnivals. Probably ideal over the heat of Summer to have a break, for the trainers and horses. They are certainly not going to entertain coming to NZ for 14 weeks over the Summer. So putting the NZ Champions Day on the world map, but the quality of horses will not be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 8 minutes ago, Maximus said: I would also question to what extent this all draws top horses from Aus They wont necessarily be 'top horses' , Hesi ...just quality performers racing over there having been bought at Karaka. Stake money here will never rival NSW and VIC offerings, and shouldn't. NZ will always be a 'feeder' market to the big boys with bigger populations. What it will do is attract more Aus and Asian investors in our bloodstock - great for the breeders and related services. The crucial thing is that our network of racetracks gets upgraded to provide a much better 'on-course' experience. MM More important as Mardi says, that the actual courses get upgraded so we can present consistent racing to the world stage, which is where the increase in wagering turnover will come from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 47 minutes ago, curious said: Having a G1 on the day means it will be eligible for the world tote pool for the day. I think eligible - but my understanding was still only what are deemed worthy. Not all G1 days get World Pool inclusion. Or do I have that incorrect? Otherwise the original Railway date would have had that opportunity already. I don't think the Melbourne Cup got World Pool status. And not all races on the day necessarily get World Pool inclusion. Caulfield Cup day had 3 races on the program I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 9 minutes ago, mardigras said: I think eligible - but my understanding was still only what are deemed worthy. Not all G1 days get World Pool inclusion. Or do I have that incorrect? Otherwise the original Railway date would have had that opportunity already. I don't think the Melbourne Cup got World Pool status. And not all races on the day necessarily get World Pool inclusion. Caulfield Cup day had 3 races on the program I think. Pretty sure I read somewhere yesterday that was the expectation. Whether or not it's been confirmed as part of their due diligence, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 15 minutes ago, mardigras said: I think eligible - but my understanding was still only what are deemed worthy. Not all G1 days get World Pool inclusion. Or do I have that incorrect? Otherwise the original Railway date would have had that opportunity already. I don't think the Melbourne Cup got World Pool status. And not all races on the day necessarily get World Pool inclusion. Caulfield Cup day had 3 races on the program I think. Can you explain what world pool status means, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 https://worldpool.hkjc.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 16 minutes ago, Hesi said: Can you explain what world pool status means, thanks A tote pool where a number of countries bet into a single pool creating greater certainty around price. UK, France, Australia, HK etc - would likely also provide benefits to the host nation I assume in some form of race fields fee on foreign pool investment (but I'm not sure what the set-up or conditions of that are). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Thanks Do we know if KM Day1 and I presume NZ Champions Day are accepted or just elligible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Hesi said: Thanks Do we know if KM Day1 and I presume NZ Champions Day are accepted or just elligible They may have been agreed to, but are not on the official list as per the link Curious put up. But that only goes to 2023/24. It's main point for me is exposure to foreign punters - I don't expect the revenue side of it would be a game change for NZ. Edited January 22 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I note from that list, that even though NZ has 'big' racing days with more than one G1 race, we have nothing on that list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Would it be fair to say, that foreign punters would take one look at the way the Trentham track played out and go elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 minutes ago, Hesi said: I note from that list, that even though NZ has 'big' racing days with more than one G1 race, we have nothing on that list NZ would be lucky t get a date - although if Curious is correct, they may have negotiated that. 1 minute ago, Hesi said: Would it be fair to say, that foreign punters would take one look at the way the Trentham track played out and go elsewhere. Although Ellerslie is new so shouldn't have issues like that. If we get a date and it's a huge success, my guess would be that the industry may make an extra 200k-400k from the punting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Well, the increase in wagering can only come to a certain amount from NZ domestic, so world markets have to be the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 28 minutes ago, Hesi said: I note from that list, that even though NZ has 'big' racing days with more than one G1 race, we have nothing on that list I'm guessing that having the richest 3yo race in the southern hemisphere on the day would be the factor to change that. I can't place what I read or heard but from memory, having a G1 on the day meant that the world pool would take the whole day or more of it, not just the one race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Hesi said: Well, the increase in wagering can only come to a certain amount from NZ domestic, so world markets have to be the future. The interesting part would be how the revenue from the world pool is split. Is it based on % invested into it (less a management fee from HK for hosting it)? Or whether the host country gets a higher % of the take than what they invested. The profit share rules could make a massive difference - and if the profit shares rules are lower returns than what the NZ TAB would have achieved through NZ TAB alone, there would be a small risk that the net revenue was lower by opting in to the World Pool than not. I'd be surprised if NZ got more than 3 races on any day. Big races in Germany have been getting 2 - 3 races. And Turnbull stakes day got 5 races, and Caulfield Cup day got 3 races (a day with 1 G1, 3 G2, 3 G3, 2 Listed). Edited January 22 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 22 minutes ago, curious said: I'm guessing that having the richest 3yo race in the southern hemisphere on the day would be the factor to change that. I can't place what I read or heard but from memory, having a G1 on the day meant that the world pool would take the whole day or more of it, not just the one race. That is on the new Champions Day. The rationale for switching the Railway was to get World Pool for Karaka Day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Hesi said: That is on the new Champions Day. The rationale for switching the Railway was to get World Pool for Karaka Day 1 Yes. I'm not sure if they were talking about it for both days or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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