Cup Week Wrap

[Hesi]

1.  Catalyst, what can you say....awesome, Troy Harris ride a bit hairy though.  Who knows, maybe Harlech will be a bigger star........will Catalyst go past 1600m, maybe 2040 at The Valley

2.  Blair Orange finally gets his NZ Trotting Cup winning drive, then tops it off with a win in the Dominion Trot

3.  True Enough, easy winner of the Couplands, even with all that BGP money weighing it down.  I know they are good for racing, but something just rankles about BGP, perhaps it's age

4.  Greyhounds going around for $125K....that's a lot of bones

5.  Great story with the winner of the NZ Cup.......trained on the road, and what a great name Terrill

6.  Looks like some nice fillies coming through....white chalk written on red brick

7.  Woodcote Lass runs a national record for 1100m

8.  Crowds looked great at the trotting cup, the tradition thing in Canterbury really runs strong with this day

9.  Vow And Declare kills them in the MC

[LookingForValue]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

1.  Catalyst, what can you say....awesome, Troy Harris ride a bit hairy though.  Who knows, maybe Harlech will be a bigger star........will Catalyst go past 1600m, maybe 2040 at The Valley

I would say he would get 2000m or thereabouts. By the way, Happy Birthday old boy

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by LookingForValue

[VC!]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

1.  Catalyst, what can you say....awesome, Troy Harris ride a bit hairy though.  Who knows, maybe Harlech will be a bigger star........will Catalyst go past 1600m, maybe 2040 at The Valley

I was thinking along the same lines, I was trying to place them in races I would like to back them in

Harlech looks very promising and Mike he loves Derby’s so the NZ Derby or AJC Derby could be on the cards for Harlech

Catalyst  if they bring him to Aus I really hope they stick with Troy Harris, he’s as good as any Australian jockey

The Doncaster May be his goal in the Autumn  he may go H2H against Te Akau Shark I would expect Melody Belle to be aimed at the Queen Elizabeth

With Catalyst In the Spring I would resist the Cox Plate and aim him at the 7.5 million Golden Eagle over 1500 mtrs this is an age restricted race for 4 year olds only

 

[Hesi]

From the 2000 G, only Harlech, Sherwood Forest, Chuck A Luck and Callsign Mav, and 1000 G Loire, Travelling Light and Avadane are nominated for the NZ Derby.

Kali and Bavella the Railway

[Maximus]

There's only two things you've forgotten regarding the Summer and autumn carnivals awaiting us..

• .all the horses yet to reveal themselves (take a  look at the Derby noms, you wont know most of them)
• the difference between Spring racing and late summer racing carnivals - different island, different tracks/conditions, new opposition.

Some of the best contenders for the Railway/Telegraph /Cups/KarakaMillions/ Derby /Oaks didn't race at Riccarton. We tend to get a bit carried away with fast times at Chch on a Good3 with a hurricane force wind fair up their arses (Michael Pitman raving about Sensei breaking 31 secs his last 600 is an example ...very very good sprinter, but just a tad of wind assistance there, don't ya think?)

To win a Railway you need a fast horse that can handle the corners (plural) at Ellerslie, not just a flying machine. Many South Island sprinters don't win at Ellerslie and vie versa.

Just saying.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Maximus

[Hesi]

2 hours ago, Maximus said:

There's only two things you've forgotten regarding the Summer and autumn carnivals awaiting us..

• .all the horses yet to reveal themselves (take a  look at the Derby noms, you wont know most of them)
• the difference between Spring racing and late summer racing carnivals - different island, different tracks/conditions, new opposition.

Some of the best contenders for the Railway/Telegraph /Cups/KarakaMillions/ Derby /Oaks didn't race at Riccarton. We tend to get a bit carried away with fast times at Chch on a Good3 with a hurricane force wind fair up their arses (Michael Pitman raving about Sensei breaking 31 secs his last 600 is an example ...very very good sprinter, but just a tad of wind assistance there, don't ya think?)

To win a Railway you need a fast horse that can handle the corners (plural) at Ellerslie, not just a flying machine. Many South Island sprinters don't win at Ellerslie and vie versa.

Just saying.

Good skills Maxi

I checked the Derby noms before I posted, and yep heaps of unraced 3 year olds.

The purpose of the 2000G and to a lesser a extent the 1000G, as it was originally developed, was as the first serious test of the top 3 year olds over a mile in late April/early May.  But that is with the Derby in the first week of June.  That timing seems to work and has worked for many years in the Uk, where it was originally evolved.

Of course, we know better in NZ, and moved the Derby, so it is 4 months after the guineas, so we get the scenario of horses that have not even raced slowly showing their credentials as Derby contenders in that intervening 4 months

[Maximus]

personally i think its better to have the Derby later in the 3yo season - not so tough on their legs/joints Would it be better to run the 1000G / 2000G i December?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Maximus

[Hesi]

Well the rationale to move the Derby, was that it allows more horses to mature, so doesn't that same rationale apply to lead up races like the Guineas.

The Derby in the UK is run in what would be the equivalent, first week December.  It's been like that for centuries, so the horses up there must have tougher legs and joints

 

[mardigras]

38 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Well the rationale to move the Derby, was that it allows more horses to mature, so doesn't that same rationale apply to lead up races like the Guineas.

The Derby in the UK is run in what would be the equivalent, first week December.  It's been like that for centuries, so the horses up there must have tougher legs and joints

 

The classics are generally used as breeding races. In the UK, many don't race for a long time afterwards. NZ classics don't have the same relationship probably since the perceived value of the NZ derby as a breeding proposition is relatively minimal.

For a start, I'm pretty sure a gelding still cannot even run in the Derby over there. Looking at the NZ Derby noms, more geldings than anything I think.

Edited November 19, 2019 by mardigras