Ellerslie's Strathayr

[Hesi]

Going past Ellersle this morning and had my camera with me, so popped in and took a few pics that I will post later.  Major earthworks, and looks like they are pulling a lot of big rocks out of where they are excavating

[Hesi]

[slam dunk]

Bugger I thought the driving range might still have been open.

[Turny]

Well done ARC, surely will be the HQ of NZ racing and in 3 years will have all of CJCs major races - just a no brainer and as a true blue totaĺly loyal Cantab will piss me off big time but I fully understand why

We can longer compete down here

Edited November 21, 2022 by Turny

[Hesi]

Well past the time when clubs should be working together for the bigger picture, the betterment of racing in NZ, not trying to cannibalise each other.

Parochialism, the biggest ill in NZ racing

[Turny]

Good luck with that Hesi, we are very much in the NSW Vic competition

[Hesi]

1 hour ago, Turny said:

Good luck with that Hesi, we are very much in the NSW Vic competition

One big difference though🙄

[Hesi]

There is a parallel though.

NZ needs SI racing, just like NSW/Vic need NZ racing

[Turny]

NSW and Vic need NZ racing 

Why? 

[Freda]

2 hours ago, Turny said:

NSW and Vic need NZ racing 

Why? 

Yeah....I'd like to know too!

[Freda]

Just now, Freda said:

Yeah....I'd like to know too!

Other than a comparison of how not to do things...

[mardigras]

Aus racing has no need for NZ racing as NSW and Vic do not get any of the returns from NZ racing (outside any miniscule rights they may have under joint venture arrangements with Tabcorp). The vast majority of money received via NZTR that Ellerslie gets comes from Australian racing betting proceeds.

I also don't see the new track at Ellerslie doing anything special for NZ racing. The same investment on a standard turf track would have done the same. I don't see it as some magic elixir. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by mardigras

[Hesi]

5 hours ago, Turny said:

NSW and Vic need NZ racing 

Why? 

NZ is a source of both talent and quality bloodstock.  Maybe need is the wrong word, but it enriches horse racing not just in NSW/Vic, but all of Aus

[Turny]

True Hesi, bloodstock is the only thing, plus the odd good Jockey.

We dont learn off them in any other way, too stupid, and there is nothing we do here that Aussie would replicate other than put on the not to do list

Edited November 21, 2022 by Turny

[Hesi]

Quite a few trainers as well, which tells you a lot about the skill level and knowledge here 

[RJB]

But as more and more leave then less is left here...look at the RTR sales...50 of the best two year olds gone to HK or OZ, and how many NZ Trainers were active..2 or 3 maybe ...its a no win situation...it cant be both ways as there is nothing to keep them here no argument for them to stay...zero.Sorry but that is just a fact.I know if I get one good enough to go or be bought..it will be gone..no upside to keep it here.

[Maximus]

Every jurisdiction needs its 'marquee' flagship operation. For a small population such as NZ, an Auckland-based outfit has to be it. ARC/ATR whoever they are now is doing totally the right thing to establish a long-term structure that can sustain attractive stakes/rewards for owners, trainers, jockeys and other 'stakeholders'. Thank God they've stopped trying to compete against each other; twould be even better if Avondale Jockey Club could sort their shite out and establish an equitable solution.

From early 2024 they plan to be racing for average stakes of $100k; so there are reasons for Kiwis to stay in NZ in this industry, and it will encourage South Islanders to come north - unless they can pool their resources somehow to create a mini-me of this in the south, which I doubt.

We have to accept we are a kindergarten not a tertiary institution from a horse racing perspective. But we are a colossus in the bloodstock stakes.

MM

[Hesi]

Many will never leave because they are too well set up here, including other activities than just training horses.

Te Akau will never leave, they are creaming it anyway with their syndicates, nor stables like Roger James, O'Sullivan, Richardson, Andrew Forsman has said he will not leave.

Those that leave, there are others coming up to fill their places, smaller establishments, that look at the increasing stakes and think they can make a go of it.

For someone like me who is not in the industry, looking in, I see what many in the industry may not see.  A wealth of knowledgeable and skilled thoroughbred people, at all levels.  A well established world renowned breeding industry, and a racing infrastructure, all be it many parts in need of attention.

To start from scratch and try and establish that, would be a huge undertaking, virtually impossible.

Ellerslie are clearly subsidising, with money from asset sales, in an attempt to kick start things, and they are to be applauded for it, but it all must become sustainable, and fairly quickly.

The immediate concern is what is going to happen with TAB NZ, they are spending more than what they are earning.  They have been painfully slow off the mark to outsource, and Robertson is not going to bale them out again

 

 

[mardigras]

9 hours ago, Hesi said:

NZ is a source of both talent and quality bloodstock.  Maybe need is the wrong word, but it enriches horse racing not just in NSW/Vic, but all of Aus

You don't need to have races to raise quality bloodstock.

[Freda]

14 hours ago, Hesi said:

Many will never leave because they are too well set up here, including other activities than just training horses.

Te Akau will never leave, they are creaming it anyway with their syndicates, nor stables like Roger James, O'Sullivan, Richardson, Andrew Forsman has said he will not leave.

Those that leave, there are others coming up to fill their places, smaller establishments, that look at the increasing stakes and think they can make a go of it.

For someone like me who is not in the industry, looking in, I see what many in the industry may not see.  A wealth of knowledgeable and skilled thoroughbred people, at all levels.  A well established world renowned breeding industry, and a racing infrastructure, all be it many parts in need of attention.

To start from scratch and try and establish that, would be a huge undertaking, virtually impossible.

Ellerslie are clearly subsidising, with money from asset sales, in an attempt to kick start things, and they are to be applauded for it, but it all must become sustainable, and fairly quickly.

The immediate concern is what is going to happen with TAB NZ, they are spending more than what they are earning.  They have been painfully slow off the mark to outsource, and Robertson is not going to bale them out again

 

 

Yes.   And you can only sell something once.

[Hesi]

And wouldn't it become very boring and inbred if racing in NZ became all about ATR/Waikato, a small CD presence and nothing in the SI.  So, good on the bigger clubs for investing in stakes and infrastructure, but they also need to support racing elsewhere in the country.

Nelson/MacDougal, the leading jumps stable at the time, chose to take their horses to an Aus carnival rather than the Grand National meeting, so we were left very short of horses for that carnival.  How do they think they were able to establish themselves in the first place, via a racing infrastructure in this country, set up by all racing participants over a period of time

[Hesi]

Barry comments about this, about how boring racing is at Ruakaka.

Usual small group of trainers, with the locals winning more that their share each meeting

[Maximus]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

Barry comments about this, about how boring racing is at Ruakaka.

Usual small group of trainers, with the locals winning more that their share each meeting

Yellow card there, Hesi-meister. Tell Max, for instance, what is a local trainer's 'fair share' each meeting? Horses trained up north (and other provinces) have to travel long distances to race at Te Rapa or Ellerslie or Matamata or Rotorua ...what's 'fair' about that? It's just the advantage of playing at home, mate.

Racing at Ruakaka is no more 'boring' than racing at Hastings, Gisborne, Otaki, Woodville, Timaru or Ashburton. And the scenery is superior than all of them put together.

So there.

MM

[barryb]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:06 PM, Hesi said:

There is a parallel though.

NZ needs SI racing, just like NSW/Vic need NZ racing

Why do we need SI racing Hesi?. Very few people in the north even give it a second glance.

[barryb]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:06 AM, Maximus said:

Yellow card there, Hesi-meister. Tell Max, for instance, what is a local trainer's 'fair share' each meeting? Horses trained up north (and other provinces) have to travel long distances to race at Te Rapa or Ellerslie or Matamata or Rotorua ...what's 'fair' about that? It's just the advantage of playing at home, mate.

Racing at Ruakaka is no more 'boring' than racing at Hastings, Gisborne, Otaki, Woodville, Timaru or Ashburton. And the scenery is superior than all of them put together.

So there.

MM

Racing is incredibly boring at Ruakaka, the facilities are only marginally better than Avondale.

I agree regarding Gisborne & Otaki, the racing at Otaki is horrible as well. Hastings, Woodville, Timaru (one of my fav tracks) & Ashburton are far from boring.