curious

20 minutes ago, mardigras said:

c) incurs costs that tote does not incur (managing markets/setting prices/managing accounts)

 

Are they still paying Betfair/Paddy Power $40m a year for that, or are Entain/Ladbrokes now providing that?

3 hours ago, Hesi said:

As I said we are not privy to the figures, which is a shame for those interested.  I can recall that the Racing Board allowed costs to balloon to 220 mil with a revenue of about 350 mil

These costs were brought down by RITA to low 200 mil.

So it would be interesting to see what the breakdown is now with Entain's expertise and economies of scale.

The last annual report on the TAB NZ website is 2020

No it's 2022. https://www.tabnz.org/reports

13 hours ago, Hesi said:

We are not privy to all the data, but it would be interesting to look back at Racing Board annual reports to compare what costs were, before and after FO betting was introduced.  I can't remember what year it happened

1995

I did eventually get the yields for 4 years about that time and from memory the gross FOB return ranged from 2+% - 12% p.a. Never did look at the cost increases though.

What's happening on the geoblocking anyway?

11 minutes ago, mardigras said:

if NZ geoblock - they may as well revert to a HK model and go tote only. Gives them better returns and zero risk. No brainer - however, I bet you $5 they won't do it.

Lot lower costs too. Might be the go.

36 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Who can point me to turnover info provided - either NZTR or TAB - such as YoY comparisons/venue comparisons. 

Yes please. I'm looking for that too, especially venue/meeting comparisons.

Spent 700

Return 1100

Wingatui R5 #1 Hakadecree @$5   $100 win

Friction or a lack of it is maybe the result but it is the surface tension (of the track) that is restricting the water permeating causing the lack of friction between that water layer and the surface below.

3 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Yep I can understand that, but it is not what you could call surface tension

Well, I might be wrong. I think you are taking it as meaning a quality of the water but I think Strathayr are using it to mean a quality of the track surface.

23 minutes ago, Hesi said:

I still don't understand this surface tension thing.  Surface tension is a caused by very weak forces, miniscule compared to the force that a galloping 600kg horse could exert????

I don't think that's the point. Not that you'd find many 600kg horses going round. As I understand it, the higher surface tension pre`vents the water from light rain, such as Ellerslie expēriēnced, penetrating that surface so you have much wetter soil and/or surface water in the top few mms causing a slippery surface.

10 minutes ago, pete said:

I was going to say the same about 'surface tension'. Also no mention  of stuffing up track preparation which was admitted by Wilcox on Weigh In.

A thick layer of roots just below the surface would certainly increase surface tension by preventing water infiltrating, but how could they not know it was there?

Spent 600

Return 1100

Te Rapa    2    12    First Innings $100 win @ $12

4 minutes ago, Hesi said:

You considered Legarto a past the post proposition to the extent you paid out before the race.  If we take a multi, Legarto to win/Orchestral to win, will you apply the same logic, so that we already have the first leg of our multi in, at whatever the price was.

You could ask the question for sure but I'm pretty sure the answer would be no. They are not in the business of giving even losing punters, large amounts of money in advance and they'd have to make such a deal available to all then wouldn't they?

1 hour ago, mardigras said:

yes, only for futures market. I expect they had very little activity on the futures market - not sure what odds were offered on the horse in the futures market, but if they were low like the raceday market, not likely costing them long term.

Probably, as you suggest, where they are not unduly exposed anyway and they rate the chance of the horse winning close to 100%. So, the promotional value exceeds the risk and it encourages earlier turnover of that money.

19 minutes ago, pete said:

Maybe I should have called myself The Artist Formerly Known As Pete.

Haha

34 minutes ago, Hesi said:

And I note this patronising comment from Ellis.  Well walk the walk Mr Ellis and support NZ racing.

Isn't he doing that in spades already?

11 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Petra, has a ring to it lol

Petal was the give away I think 🙂

3 minutes ago, pete said:

Haha yes. There are some strange people on that site.

It was Waiuku which is south of Auckland.

He was also a very gifted racing journalist by all accounts.

Smoke Ring completed the Great Northern Hurdles/Steeples double in 1965.

Might have trained top 3yo Princess Patrice as well?

Was it Waiuk? or Waiuku? Think he won a few at the races there too didn't he?

Sounds like you might have had an overnight sex change Pete. If so, congratulations.

7 minutes ago, Our Maizcay said:

is that your barometer for a top meeting?

I for one won't be betting on it until the issues with it seem to be sorted.

1 hour ago, mardigras said:

I don't think you can look at times on this track compared to the previous track. This is a new track. If times are a measure - look at the supposed time at Riccarton of Madam Dubai over 1200m in 1.07.22

Times should not be an indicator of track performance. This track was having its second proper race meeting. And reports of slipping would be of more concern than any times they ran. 

The times overall suggest the track may run faster than the previous implementation. e.g Around 4% of horses to run at Ellerslie in the past over 1200 would break 1.09.5. 6 looked to have done that yesterday out of 34 starters.

Yes. And I'd say riders reluctant to change ground in the shifty conditions favoured the handy horses that had a straight run to the line.

7 hours ago, Hesi said:

Pendragon definitely slipped coming into the straight

This must all be very concerning after the money spent on this track, 15mm of irrigation overnight, then 'light' showers

Good pic. There was turf flying all over the place on that turn.

Looks like it worked well -not.