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Weigh In Dec 12


Hesi
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1 hour ago, Turny said:

Clearly Geo Blocking is being worked on but won't happen any time soon.

These ideas are all along the same lines. Not looking at why they are losing business or why punters are turning away from NZ Racing. But ways to increase revenue by strengthening their monopoly reach or by obtaining legislative changes to reduce their liabilities / obtain additional government endorsed revenue streams.

None of them are related to addressing the lack of interest in what they are there to support.

Tax payers should be very pissed off - luckily for most, they don't know what goes on.

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Okay let's recap then.

Clearly a lot of opinion on what is wrong with NZ racing and how to fix it.

I know a few have put up their thoughts before, but in view of the changing landscape, namely the ongoing balancing of the books and worsening track problems.

What are your recommendations to fix racing in NZ

I'm particularly interested in RGB's thoughts

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2 hours ago, Hesi said:

Okay let's recap then.

Clearly a lot of opinion on what is wrong with NZ racing and how to fix it.

I know a few have put up their thoughts before, but in view of the changing landscape, namely the ongoing balancing of the books and worsening track problems.

What are your recommendations to fix racing in NZ

I'm particularly interested in RGB's thoughts

Think you'd have to wind the clock back at least a decade and probably 15-20 years to do that.

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I dont have all the answers but a few things spring to mind.

I think we have to many race meetings in a week...sometimes 3 on a Saturday...hard to get jockeys at two let alone 3...cut the meetings per week down as like the old days and that in itself would increase stakes a little.

2 Fix the programming its a diabolical mess at the moment..especially the SI, geez what's the point of having a 2yo down there you get maybe 3 or 4 chances to run in a season its a joke and the whole calendar needs looking at and be programmed by someone with knowledge of actually how often horses can run.

3 Cut NZTR costs, they are through the roof and keep getting worse, its a joke and nobody seems to try to fix this...way out spending its means.

4 Have a student type academy set up so Jockeys, strappers and trainers can be trained from the start, get the kids interested in High school so we have a pool of talent to get people from.

5 have a tax on selling horses offshore...so we dont simply lose our best before they even race, this has been a drain on our industry for the past 25 years or more.

6 Put people who know and understand racing in charge of it in all areas not wankers with a suit and a CV from some big wig company...thats who is stuffing us now...Sharrock aside.

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3 hours ago, RJB said:

I dont have all the answers but a few things spring to mind.

I think we have to many race meetings in a week...sometimes 3 on a Saturday...hard to get jockeys at two let alone 3...cut the meetings per week down as like the old days and that in itself would increase stakes a little.

2 Fix the programming its a diabolical mess at the moment..especially the SI, geez what's the point of having a 2yo down there you get maybe 3 or 4 chances to run in a season its a joke and the whole calendar needs looking at and be programmed by someone with knowledge of actually how often horses can run.

3 Cut NZTR costs, they are through the roof and keep getting worse, its a joke and nobody seems to try to fix this...way out spending its means.

4 Have a student type academy set up so Jockeys, strappers and trainers can be trained from the start, get the kids interested in High school so we have a pool of talent to get people from.

5 have a tax on selling horses offshore...so we dont simply lose our best before they even race, this has been a drain on our industry for the past 25 years or more.

6 Put people who know and understand racing in charge of it in all areas not wankers with a suit and a CV from some big wig company...thats who is stuffing us now...Sharrock aside.

3.  You could see Sharrock was quite peeved about this.  He has obviously been to Mike Todd asking for more money and told no.  It rests pretty much on what is happening in Aus at the moment, albeit 4 years later.  I'm afraid though, that turkeys wont vote for an early Xmas.  They tried cutting costs through the RITA changeover, and I think at best they came up with about 10 mil, which has now ballooned out again.  If they can't stitch something together in Aus, then there are going to be further cuts in the distribution to the 3 codes in 2023/24

5.  Agree.  Anyone who is making money on the back of a racing infrastructure, that has been set up by many people in racing over many years, should be paying 

6.  The principles of building a multi million dollar business should be the same, whether it is horses or some other thing.  Have they been unlucky or negligent in their recruiting.  Looking at the last 3, Andrew Brown, Chris Bayliss and John Allen, you would have to say so, but the Board did sanction their appointments.  Unfortunately the very small handful in NZ who qualify with the horse experience, are too busy building their own businesses and making a fortune

 

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2 hours ago, Hesi said:

3.  You could see Sharrock was quite peeved about this.  He has obviously been to Mike Todd asking for more money and told no.  It rests pretty much on what is happening in Aus at the moment, albeit 4 years later.  I'm afraid though, that turkeys wont vote for an early Xmas.  They tried cutting costs through the RITA changeover, and I think at best they came up with about 10 mil, which has now ballooned out again.  If they can't stitch something together in Aus, then there are going to be further cuts in the distribution to the 3 codes in 2023/24

5.  Agree.  Anyone who is making money on the back of a racing infrastructure, that has been set up by many people in racing over many years, should be paying 

6.  The principles of building a multi million dollar business should be the same, whether it is horses or some other thing.  Have they been unlucky or negligent in their recruiting.  Looking at the last 3, Andrew Brown, Chris Bayliss and John Allen, you would have to say so, but the Board did sanction their appointments.  Unfortunately the very small handful in NZ who qualify with the horse experience, are too busy building their own businesses and making a fortune

 

I don't see what they could possibly stitch together in Oz that would result in more rather than less money for the industry. And I'd be very surprised if there are no further cuts BEFORE the 2023/24 season.

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7 hours ago, RJB said:

I dont have all the answers but a few things spring to mind.

I think we have to many race meetings in a week...sometimes 3 on a Saturday...hard to get jockeys at two let alone 3...cut the meetings per week down as like the old days and that in itself would increase stakes a little.

2 Fix the programming its a diabolical mess at the moment..especially the SI, geez what's the point of having a 2yo down there you get maybe 3 or 4 chances to run in a season its a joke and the whole calendar needs looking at and be programmed by someone with knowledge of actually how often horses can run.

3 Cut NZTR costs, they are through the roof and keep getting worse, its a joke and nobody seems to try to fix this...way out spending its means.

4 Have a student type academy set up so Jockeys, strappers and trainers can be trained from the start, get the kids interested in High school so we have a pool of talent to get people from.

5 have a tax on selling horses offshore...so we dont simply lose our best before they even race, this has been a drain on our industry for the past 25 years or more.

6 Put people who know and understand racing in charge of it in all areas not wankers with a suit and a CV from some big wig company...thats who is stuffing us now...Sharrock aside.

1. I agree with there being too many meetings/races. But reducing the number only increases average stakes, not stakes paid out across the horse/participant population - and that only happens due to the ongoing subsidy NZ racing gets from non-NZ racing. 

So less races with overall stake levels the same, roughly returns similar across the ownership group and less for some participants.

If the income was solely from our own racing (which it should be), it may not increase stakes at all, unless interest in our racing overall remains at least at the same level.

2. Absolutely. How hard can it be to canvass trainers every week/two weeks about their desire to race (class/distance/region/other (AWT/yes/no) etc), in the period two + weeks out. Program races based on trainer desire to run horses. Trainers feed into program, not program set aimed to be filled by trainers.

3. May well be out of control. Likely needs due diligence to understand why/what is being expensed.

4. Anything to provide opportunity/understanding/training is worth investigating

5. I disagree. Breeding and racing should be kept separate. A lot of the problems with the racing side of the industry has stemmed from too much say from the breeding side. NZ racing doesn't need breeding and breeding doesn't need racing. That is how they will both become sustainable. Locking them together will continue to cause problems.

6. I somewhat disagree. I don't think you need people who understand racing in charge of the TAB. You need people that understand betting markets in charge of the TAB. That way you won't make decisions around how you will increase revenue, that simply wouldn't ever be made by someone that understood betting markets. Racing people will be as equally useless at this in general as those they have employed.

6- In respect of NZTR, skills understanding racing becomes possibly more important, since those decisions should be around the best interests in operating the racing and development/integrity of people/place etc associated with racing. Understanding racing will likely help with decisions around what affects that very group.

 

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For me

1) Effective 1 Jan reduce all races above $100k to Listed $100k races, reallocate those stakes to ensure a min 20% rise across all rating 65 and above races.

2) Reduce tote and exotic take outs to 10%, stop all fixed odds betting immediately.

3) Australian racing to remain commingled at current takeout levels.

4) Pay stakes only to 5th.

5) Introduce universal nationwide membership for all owners who have 10% share or more in a horse. 

6) Introduce a jumping incentive programme for geldings 5yrs plus with a $1000 plus annual entry fee.

7) Pay additional fees to clubs that have 12 or more starters, graduated scale upwards for each race. Those fees to reflect in facilities/track improvements. 

😎 Local track trained horses whom start to have Jockey fee waivered by NZTR.

9) Bring on a jackpoting bet of pick the winner in 8 races on a day, max invest $500 per account to reduce the big guns wiping it out, have token lotto like returns for 5/6/7 winners. Jackpots till struck or the Max allowed under legislation.

 

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5 hours ago, brown fox said:

I like pretty much all of that Barry especially the reduced take out on exotics(I love quaddies)What is the rational behind stopping fixed odds betting?I thought that was your go to.

Yes it is, but it’s a disaster for the industry. It’s expensive to administer, rubbish for most punters.

And the real issue with NZ Racing is every little sector group thinks of there own good and not the collective which is why it’s shagged.

Edited by barryb
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2 hours ago, curious said:

Membership of what?

As an owner you are the backbone of racing, most owners are also the ones making up a decent proportion of on track attendance and are significant in punting pools as well.

2 groups most neglected in Racing are Owners & Punters whom are so often one in the same.

When you Purchase a 10% stake you should automatically get posted to you a membership card to NZ Racing, an entitlement for you to enter all venues free, access to all membership privileges, present yourself to the secretaries office for discounted drinks and food vouchers, scan your membership card to go into a monthly draw for money. 

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7 hours ago, barryb said:

2) Reduce tote and exotic take outs to 10%, stop all fixed odds betting immediately.

3) Australian racing to remain commingled at current takeout levels.

 

Absolutely - it's a simple idea - a few on here have been advocating for that a long time. I've been a promoter of that idea as soon as commingling was to be introduced.

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5 hours ago, brown fox said:

I like pretty much all of that Barry especially the reduced take out on exotics(I love quaddies)What is the rational behind stopping fixed odds betting?I thought that was your go to.

Fixed odds is one of the main reason NZ TAB is failing. They went from being a non-risk taking provider to a risk manager. And they don't have appropriate risk management skills. Add in that the costs of providing that service is huge in comparison to offering a tote system, which even a small team of developers could develop and maintain.

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1 hour ago, mardigras said:

Fixed odds is one of the main reason NZ TAB is failing. They went from being a non-risk taking provider to a risk manager. And they don't have appropriate risk management skills. Add in that the costs of providing that service is huge in comparison to offering a tote system, which even a small team of developers could develop and maintain.

Totally agree. They did that, entering a global market place with no chance of competing and no clear business plan as to how they would do that. Ever since as they have proved they can't compete, they have been crying for help, saying the competition is unfair and needs regulation etc. They continue to do that. It is or was at least, the NZ TOTALISATOR Agency Board.

Edited by curious
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3 hours ago, barryb said:

Yes it is, but it’s a disaster for the industry. It’s expensive to administer, rubbish for most punters.

And the real issue with NZ Racing is every little sector group thinks of there own good and not the collective which is why it’s shagged.

Yep, parochialism

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2 hours ago, Hesi said:

Yep, parochialism

I wouldn't so much describe it as parochialism as yes, partly self-interest, but more so a lack of consensus because a large portion of participants are not well informed like many in this discussion and tend to believe whatever the latest hopeful story is, like that the BUI charges would solve the problem for example when they were grossly overestimated and even though Treasury and the DIA told them that, lots hung their hat on it including some media "experts" who just spread the mistruths.

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