ngakonui grass Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 money up and yet it doen't look like any field will need ballots even the Derby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Quality not quantity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Wait till you see what the Derby field is like next year with the NZB Kiwi on the same day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, pete said: Quality not quantity? The ratings of the runners don't look particularly high? What are the conditions of the Rangitoto? Do you know? Seems a pretty average looking bunch to me. Edited February 27 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Conditions: For Trainers outside of the Top 10 in prizemoney at midnight 30 November 2023 Eligibility: The Top 10 Trainers will be determined for this purpose by NZTR based on stakes earned in New Zealand during the 2023/24 racing season as at midnight on 30 November 2023. Any horse transferred from a Top 10 Trainer’s stable to a Trainer who is not a Top 10 Trainer after midnight on 31 October 2023 will not be eligible to start in the race – 1500m The Trainers and training partnerships ineligible to enter a horse for this race are as follow: Mark Walker/Sam Bergerson Stephen Marsh Lisa Latta Lance O’Sullivan/Andrew Scott Tony Pike Andrew Forsman Robbie Patterson Kevin Myers Danny Walker/Aaron Tata Allan Sharrock Furthermore, any horse that was trained by a trainer(s) listed above, and transferred to another stable after 31 October 2023 is also ineligible to enter for this race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 11 minutes ago, Hesi said: Wait till you see what the Derby field is like next year with the NZB Kiwi on the same day I'm not convinced it will have much impact. I wouldn't negotiate for a share of prizemoney in a slot race versus trying to win a 3yo classic race. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Of course Walker and Tata are only in that group because of the deeds of one horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, mardigras said: I'm not convinced it will have much impact. I wouldn't negotiate for a share of prizemoney in a slot race versus trying to win a 3yo classic race. Here is the scenario with Orchestral had they run it this year NZ Derby 600K for first with G1 black type Kiwi 1.8 mil including the Bonus if she won, so how much would a slot holder offer the connections of Orchestral to run for them, assuming she had won a bonus race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Hesi said: Here is the scenario with Orchestral had they run it this year NZ Derby 600K for first with G1 black type Kiwi 1.8 mil including the Bonus if she won, so how much would a slot holder offer the connections of Orchestral to run for them, assuming she had won a bonus race Money isn't the attraction for me. A slot race means nothing except stake. And the owner negotiating will decide what their share is. But if I was Orchestral's owners, why would I even enter a negotiation. Races don't tend to be just second thoughts - horses tend to be trained for them. So the entire program of Orchestral would have changed. And that applies to any horse. Their program leading up to the Kiwi is going to need to be based on having a desire to run in that race. Not deciding a month out that we are now switching from looking to the Derby to running in a 1500m race. And the main issue for me would be the classics that race in Aus following the NZ Derby. I'd expect an owner would want say 50% of the Kiwi stake to consider it. On your numbers that means 900k to the winner. Hardly more than winning the Derby which has G1 status. And easier to win the Derby given all those horses supposedly trying to gain entry to the Kiwi, if what you suggest is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Take Vic Derby day as an example. On that day, there are 4 3yo only races. They don't seem too concerned that any of them affect the fields for the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buller Rep Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 hours ago, mardigras said: Money isn't the attraction for me. A slot race means nothing except stake. And the owner negotiating will decide what their share is. But if I was Orchestral's owners, why would I even enter a negotiation. Races don't tend to be just second thoughts - horses tend to be trained for them. So the entire program of Orchestral would have changed. And that applies to any horse. Their program leading up to the Kiwi is going to need to be based on having a desire to run in that race. Not deciding a month out that we are now switching from looking to the Derby to running in a 1500m race. And the main issue for me would be the classics that race in Aus following the NZ Derby. I'd expect an owner would want say 50% of the Kiwi stake to consider it. On your numbers that means 900k to the winner. Hardly more than winning the Derby which has G1 status. And easier to win the Derby given all those horses supposedly trying to gain entry to the Kiwi, if what you suggest is the case. Exactly the same scenario on why Te Akau said NO to Imperatriz and The Everest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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