AWT discussion

[Hesi]

Hadn't seen that one, surprising considering previous claims on Strathayr

[Hesi]

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Hesi said:

Hadn't seen that one, surprising considering previous claims on Strathayr

Don't get me wrong, I like Strathayr and MV is a very different (and great) experience.

But whatever is done, should have been done based on sound analysis. That hasn't happened.

[mardigras]

6 minutes ago, Hesi said:

They will have to amend that then. And MV is used less in winter than the turf alternatives

Edited September 29, 2020 by mardigras

[Hesi]

The only things that I can see are different between a Strathayr and a run of the mill turf track, are the substantial sub drainage system, and the small square plastic pieces of mesh that are incorporated into the top turf layer when they grow the turf.

So all Strathayr is, is a well constructed turf system with the bits of plastic mesh in the top layer, I presume this conveys many of the effects that people like about the system.

Semantics, but you could call any turf track that is constructed with good sub drainage systems, all weather

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Hesi said:

The only things that I can see are different between a Strathayr and a run of the mill turf track, are the substantial sub drainage system, and the small square plastic pieces of mesh that are incorporated into the top turf layer when they grow the turf.

So all Strathayr is, is a well constructed turf system with the bits of plastic mesh in the top layer, I presume this conveys many of the effects that people like about the system.

Semantics, but you could call any turf track that is constructed with good sub drainage systems, all weather

All turf tracks should be built with appropriate drainage capabilities. Turf being built on soil, is unlikely to make the track 'all weather', unless they've somehow managed to change the properties of wet soil.

[Hesi]

2 minutes ago, mardigras said:

All turf tracks should be built with appropriate drainage capabilities. Turf being built on soil, is unlikely to make the track 'all weather', unless they've somehow managed to change the properties of wet soil.

How many tracks in NZ, would have been purpose built, from the bottom up, to incorporate appropriate materials and drainage.

I guess none, which is why we have become so used to this quaint acceptance, that Winter racing in NZ is always going to be on bog tracks.

That was fine in the days before internet betting came along

[mardigras]

16 minutes ago, Hesi said:

How many tracks in NZ, would have been purpose built, from the bottom up, to incorporate appropriate materials and drainage.

I guess none, which is why we have become so used to this quaint acceptance, that Winter racing in NZ is always going to be on bog tracks.

That was fine in the days before internet betting came along

I think the tracks don't get any work these days. In the 60s,70s,80s, the tracks were somehow managed better. The way they do that now has no doubt changed (supposedly for the better but clearly not the case).

I'm not a turf expert, but watering methods, root depth etc etc, has probably changed and not for the good. Tracks in the UK will undergo massive remediation periodically. Yet we think, no she'll be right, just keep racing on them.

There's nothing wrong with the current tracks, it's the lack of being prepared to manage and remediate them as is appropriate. And there is nothing wrong with racing on wet tracks - if the track is consistent in how the track deals with that, so that punters can factor that in to their assessments with confidence.

[Turny]

Mardi not sure where you sit on the AWT for Riccarton, are you for or against? 

I am strongly against on a pure financial basis, as the costs particularly ongoing aren't known, incredibly. 

I doubt an AWT will put a dollar in the till, what I do know is I won't punt on them and 90% of my punting mates hold the same view. 

Strange times are with us 

[mardigras]

15 minutes ago, Turny said:

Mardi not sure where you sit on the AWT for Riccarton, are you for or against? 

I am strongly against on a pure financial basis, as the costs particularly ongoing aren't known, incredibly. 

I doubt an AWT will put a dollar in the till, what I do know is I won't punt on them and 90% of my punting mates hold the same view. 

Strange times are with us 

I'm against them in the current environment - but that has nothing to do with it being an AWT. I'd be against them building a completely new facility/track of any type - especially without a proper evaluation of options.

Your second line and the first part of line 3, would apply if the new track(s) were Strathayr. The second part of line 3 is individual choice. On the second part of line 3, I'd potentially punt more on them than I do on NZ racing currently - that doesn't change my view of whether they should be proceeded with.

[Turny]

Appreciate your thoughts, 

My question is why invest millions of dollars in 3 places when you no longer have a market to sell to and your customer base and income has fallen thru the floor? 

The business model, if one exists, absolutely floors me, it is basic business failure stuff sitting in the 101 manual

[mardigras]

3 minutes ago, Turny said:

Appreciate your thoughts, 

My question is why invest millions of dollars in 3 places when you no longer have a market to sell to and your customer base and income has fallen thru the floor? 

The business model, if one exists, absolutely floors me, it is basic business failure stuff sitting in the 101 manual

I agree

[curious]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

It will save South Island racing.     Pitty said.

What will?

[Freda]

7 hours ago, curious said:

What will?

The AWT.

[Stodge]

As always, the best comparison for NZ isn't the UK but Ireland. Currently there is a single AW track at Dundalk but a second one at Tipperary is planned for 2022. 

Dundalk opened in 2007 alongside a pre-existing dog racing track at a cost of 24 million euros. It has two Group 3 races and a Listed event and often races on Friday evenings as it has floodlights and along with UK meetings makes for a busy winter Friday evening in the bookies.

The races are very well supported by all the top Irish trainers including Aidan O'Brien and of course a Tipperary venue will be half an hour down the road.

It provides opportunities for horses which wouldn't otherwise exist - Ireland is a very wet country and I suspect by November every grass Flat track will be unraceable - the jump tracks will be bogs but raceable. Dundalk keeps the show on the road - they have eight and nine race cards which have strong prize money.

The point is there's a niche for AW racing if you have a climate which can make grass racing difficult whether by making the ground too heavy or too firm. The surface can be harrowed as required and it could be used 100-120 days a year easily.

There's also the thought of selling the product to other markets whether in Asia, the Middle East or Europe. Look at the time difference and it's not easy but not impossible and online gambling makes it a 24/7 experience. Would UK punters prefer betting on NZ racing to US racing? I don't know but it could be shown on the specialist racing channels or live streamed. 

[curious]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

The AWT.

How?

[Freda]

1 hour ago, curious said:

How?

You'll have to ask him that 

[curious]

2 minutes ago, Freda said:

You'll have to ask him that 

Perhaps he'll explain here so we can all be enlightened.

[Hesi]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Perhaps he'll explain here so we can all be enlightened.

Feel free to invite him

Always interested to get input from a thoroughbred trainer of some note about the weeks racing, upcoming stuff and issues in general that affect racing

[curious]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

Feel free to invite him

Always interested to get input from a thoroughbred trainer of some note about the weeks racing, upcoming stuff and issues in general that affect racing

I've asked Michael to come on here and comment. It's obviously important to him and he evidently has more information than most of the rest of us.

Edited September 30, 2020 by curious