Wellington Cup

[mardigras]

I've read about the quality of the NZ Cup. I don't believe either the Auckland Cup or Wellington Cup is of any greater quality. The noms for the Wellington Cup are out, and I don't see anything that will enhance the overall quality compared to the NZ Cup. It is just what NZ has available. Unless I've missed something startling - please advise.

We should be less worried about standout star quality and more concerned with providing decent competitive fields on decent tracks. Not a lot of point trying to maintain high end stakes at even $200 - $300k. $100 - $150k for any G1 here is more than sufficient.

[Hesi]

Yep, it's a sad situation

You have read the NZRB(RITA) Annual Report, nett betting revenue is down, contribution to Thoroughbred is up only $700K on last year to 80.7 mil.   The sensible approach, would be to work backwards and say, we have 80.7 mil to fund racing industry stakes, how do we best use that.

But that ain't going to happen 

The Messara Report is lost in committee

One of the key aspects of the Messara Report, transferring ownership of land to NZTR is highly contentious, and would be challenged by clubs concerned, so there goes the $190 mil that would be used to refurbish tracks and facilities, so unlikely to see 2-3 Strathayr tracks over the next few years.

The high costs at NZRB continue

Outsourcing as an option to reduce costs appears to have made no progress

Less people breeding, less owners(if talk on sites like this is to be believed), promising or good horses are exported or raced mainly in Aus.

I guess the only thing holding many talented horse people in the game in NZ, apart from the love of the thoroughbred, is the dream of a top horse that they can either sell or race in Aus

[mardigras]

I think a better way would be to work from having far less. Most of that $80m isn't being derived from anything to do with NZ thoroughbred racing. So take $40m for stakes, and $20m for infrastructure. Save $20m for when a government decides to remove pokies and/or sports funds from racing. Start a plan that reduces stakes from there as sustainable with a view to relate race numbers to population requirements but with an overarching consideration to sustainability. Reducing stakes should focus on race reduction/tiered racing and black type. Not grass roots.

Hope the money spent on infrastructure brings about an increased interest or at least stalls the decline in interest. Otherwise, just become a breeding country and focus on that.

If the racing industry was the hospitality industry, all the restaurants/bars wouldn't get funded by the government diverting funds from some other revenue stream to it to keep them all afloat. Sad, but that's the reality. NZ racing is not generating any revenue from a punting perspective.

If the racing industry had related revenue streams, then funds could be aligned to it. So places like Dubai don't require betting revenue to fund race stake. But the view is that their industry is one of the things that attracts tourism, so they invest in it. I don't think that is the case here.

Edited November 19, 2019 by mardigras

[Hesi]

Do you know what the nett betting revenue is, that is generated just from racing.....tote, fixed, overseas betting on NZ races, so removing pokies and sports betting

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Hesi said:

Do you know what the nett betting revenue is, that is generated just from racing.....tote, fixed, overseas betting on NZ races, so removing pokies and sports betting

I've extrapolated some of that from prior financial reports. It's an estimate as when they used to give breakdowns of net betting revenue, they didn't apportion the operating costs against the same sectors.

So in determining there is no net profit, that was based on an estimate of those expenses that related to domestic events (broadcasting/fixed odds pricing/share of staff costs etc). And my view at the time was that the net revenue after expenses for NZ racing was nil or very close to it. 

Prior financial reports used to breakdown GBR and NBR by type of betting and location of event. NBR from NZ racing was low anyway. And I'd expect the costs associated with provisioning NZ racing to well exceed the costs of provisioning off-shore racing and sports betting. Gaming was separated out anyway.

You can probably look at the reports now from say a year or two back when they used to provide such granular breakdown. It doesn't make for pretty reading when you consider that the NBR from NZ race related betting alone is low (and that hasn't even had any operational costs taken from it).

[Hesi]

Bit of a minefield trying to apportion costs

I was meaning nett revenue from just NZ racing before costs were taken out

So

Tote, I think it's overall margin is about 20% of whatever turnover is

Fixed, margin about 12 % again of whatever turnover is

Nz racing overseas - the report has it as 21.8 mil

So was looking for a figure of what racing in NZ generates as sales/income

Surely this would be the figure that anyone looking to takeover operation of the TAB would be looking at.  Of course Sports fixed would be included, but in this particular case just what racing in NZ generates, to establish where we are in terms of sustainability.

The issue raised by many, is that with the NZRB/TAB, it costs far far too much to generate this income, and therefore substantial outsourcing would be done to substantially reduce these costs, so more money can be returned to NZ racing.

My thoughts were, that this should have been the focus to take out of the Messara Report

Make sense??

[Hesi]

Gotta go out anyway

Ta

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Hesi said:

Bit of a minefield trying to apportion costs

I was meaning nett revenue from just NZ racing before costs were taken out

I will look it up later. It's not in the current annual report from memory. But will find it in a previous one.

Yep, is a minefield apportioning costs. They should have run a shared services and direct services model. And then provisioned the costs of those services as a breakdown.

[Globederby19]

Interesting. Sounds like a basic accounting malfunction where operational costs outweigh or negate income revenue thereby making it un sustainable in the long term. Sounds like the same accounting programme used by our local DHB.lol.

[mardigras]

From 2017 annual report.

This shows NBR from NZ racing to be $115.44m. Less than the net distribution received by racing after all the expenses.

Even if you were kind and apportioned the expenses evenly per $ of NBR, NZ racing would have consumed $78m of expenses. Leaving $37m from NZ racing. That is being very kind.

[mardigras]

Of course - after the RIU, GRNZ, NZTR and HRNZ take their slice from that $37, that leaves you probably around enough for some sausage rolls and a cup of tea.

Note, I haven't added in additional revenue that is currently obtained when apportioning costs. So some of that revenue would be available. However, when apportioning costs, I also apportioned the costs of the pokies at the same rate as the costs of racing and sports (since their costs were included in the apportionment). Which is not the case - so racing gained a fair chunk there anyway.

[VC!]

I think if you have a world class track/venue you’ll attract a decent audience I’ve always wanted to go to Happy Valley basically because the atmosphere facilities the attractiveness would be what would draw me there, the overall product (racing) would be secondary 

If I go to the races and the venue is sub standard I don’t go back why would I, I have the TAB front row seats bar fridge restaurant in my own home
 

If you have a first class venue and people fill that venue you’ll bring sponsors onboard

If you race at a track with little attendance you basically have a white elephant 

[JustPlodded]

49 minutes ago, VC! said:

If I go to the races and the venue is sub standard I don’t go back why would I, I have the TAB front row seats bar fridge restaurant in my own home

I am with you on that one. Howie and I have stopped going to Ellerslie after decades of attendance there.
They have made it very clear lately that they don't really want public there. Every week it was a case of "what have they closed, removed, made unavailable", so we can take a hint.

[Hesi]

3 hours ago, mardigras said:

Of course - after the RIU, GRNZ, NZTR and HRNZ take their slice from that $37, that leaves you probably around enough for some sausage rolls and a cup of tea.

Note, I haven't added in additional revenue that is currently obtained when apportioning costs. So some of that revenue would be available. However, when apportioning costs, I also apportioned the costs of the pokies at the same rate as the costs of racing and sports (since their costs were included in the apportionment). Which is not the case - so racing gained a fair chunk there anyway.

Ta

It would be useful when they do the Annual Report to detail income with respect to net betting revenue

Namely

Nbr thoroughbred  Tote

Nbr thoroughbred  Fixed

Nbr Sports

We already have income from gaming and off shore listed

That would give people  a chance to analyze the data better

Those weekly bulletins on the NZTR website used  to have exactly that, week on week and cumulative 

[mardigras]

19 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Ta

It would be useful when they do the Annual Report to detail income with respect to net betting revenue

Namely

Nbr thoroughbred  Tote

Nbr thoroughbred  Fixed

Nbr Sports

We already have income from gaming and off shore listed

That would give people  a chance to analyze the data better

Those weekly bulletins on the NZTR website used  to have exactly that, week on week and cumulative 

They have done so in prior annual reports where you can determine revenues related to fixed/tote/offshore/sports/gaming as well as broken down by racing code etc. The additional income is things like NZ racing shown overseas etc.

Things relating to NZ racing will have only got worse since 2017. The trends leading to 2017 were quite dramatically downward.

[VC!]

3 hours ago, JustPlodded said:

I am with you on that one. Howie and I have stopped going to Ellerslie after decades of attendance there.
They have made it very clear lately that they don't really want public there. Every week it was a case of "what have they closed, removed, made unavailable", so we can take a hint.

I was asked what was my favourite track in NZ, I had to think for a minute as no one race track stood out over the other I finally decided on Ellerslie some of my most memorable moments were watching races at Ellerslie I was there with my parents when Lester Piggott rode in 1980 from memory he rode about 4 or 5 winners from 6 rides 

I used to love the summer school holidays going to Ellerslie as I remember 26th December Queen Elizabeth and Derby 28th another race day 1st January Auckland Cup and Railway and 2nd January Flag Inns trophy day.....standing on the roof of the public grandstand was my favourite spot, I used to be that excited as a kid I could hardly sleep the night before, how things have changed 

That’s a real shame if everything is being removed 

[Hesi]

Was on that roof the day Uncle Remus won the Derby 

He went clear at the top of the straight and everyone stood and applauded  him down the straight as he streeted the rest

Likewise Boxing Day, NYD and Jan 2 which always had  the best fields

Wouldn't  go near the place now, unless horses like Catalyst, TAS and MB were there, then I would take the camera to get some shots and probably put my bets on at a TAB on the way there

Sad

[Globederby19]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:54 PM, Hesi said:

Was on that roof the day Uncle Remus won the Derby 

 

How the heck did they allow that.???? Not that Im against getting the best vantage point of course. Were you a naughty boy back then Hesi.

[Hesi]

It's the one with the twin spires.  Will brink back memories for quite a few

 

[Hesi]

Not a Moet in sight

[Maximus]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:54 PM, Hesi said:

Was on that roof the day Uncle Remus won the Derby 

He went clear at the top of the straight and everyone stood and applauded  him down the straight as he streeted the rest

Likewise Boxing Day, NYD and Jan 2 which always had  the best fields

Wouldn't  go near the place now, unless horses like Catalyst, TAS and MB were there, then I would take the camera to get some shots and probably put my bets on at a TAB on the way there

Sad

so was i ...Uncle Remus was a superstar 3yo ...sad he never quite carried on as an older horse '-went in the wind' as I recall

[JustPlodded]

Yes back in those days the public had to come to watch. There was probably only one or two channels on TV (black & white) and none were showing racing.
Nowadays when everyone has large screen TVs and a well stocked fridge, they actually need to compete for the public to choose live viewing over their lounge.
I suspect there were only 500k Aucklanders in those days of Uncle Remus  (don't start me 🤔 ) and it wasn't an hours drive from the suburbs to get there.

When last making the expedition to Ellerslie we find the TVs down the side of the public lounge turned off and the betting machines taken away. The tote at the back of the public stand was closed and the area by the track half way down the straight that we liked to watch from is closed too. But they certainly had the man person on the sound system revved up to blow you out of your seat after every race with what goes for music these days, distorted by volume and static, just in case you wanted to listen to a race from down the country or even talk to the person next to you!

So it won't be a hard choice next raceday at Ellerslie will it?