Hesi

I think also that Curious makes a salient point when he says that seeding grass, it takes a long time for a durable turf surface to become established. And what leads me to postulate that they tried to push it with lots of regular (shallow) watering, in order to meet the Jan deadline, and this is how we ended up with a shallow root mass

Yes absolutely, that is what people in the industry want to know, but it is not going to be divulged. I suspect the only way it could come out is if the worst comes to the worst and the track has to be re-done, then there could be legal action. But at the moment, we just don't know. Did ATR want to seed on site to save costs Did Strathayr approve that, in which case Strathayr have culpability Did Strathayr say we are not happy with that, but ATR went ahead anyway, in which case ATR is accountable. Did Strathhayr approve seeding, but it was not done in accordance with procedure. Were both parties in a situation of learning as you go, because it had never been done like that before. Many many unanswered questions, that for people to speculate on what went wrong is really just guessing

So many experts on these chat sites about this issue. If ATR diverged from the normal Strathayr procedure, then this guy Martin Neville from Strathayr who was present the whole time would have had to approve it.

This might be more to your to liking then BF. K D Laing was only a backup singer, in good company though lol

But if I recall correctly, another genius format thought up by PJ for an individual comp

LUCKY SEVEN This will be an INDIVIDUAL COMP. There will be 7 races each Saturday. At least 3 from NZ and at least 3 from Australia. Although you are required to post only one set of selections you will be competing in two different competitions (see below) Note the changes from previously in red. Three selections per race. $10 each way bet on each while $1 box quinellas and $1 box trifectas will feature combining all 3 selections. THE LUCKY 7 CHAMPIONSHIP The person with the most winnings at the end of 7 races is the weekly winner. They will be awarded 10 points. The top 6 finishers each week will be awarded points on a 10-6-4-3-2-1 basis. There will also be an additional point for anyone who records a profit irrespective of where you finish. On the last day of the comp, the top 10 points scorers will compete against each other in a big showdown Grand Final. The winner of the Lucky 7 Championship will be the Grand Final winner. THE LUCKY 7 CUP Each week every competitor will be matched with another competitor in a head-to-head (HTH) rivalry announced just before the first race. If you win your HTH you will score two points and carry your WINNING MARGIN $$ forward. If you lose or if both competitors are eliminated you score nothing and no $$ are carried forward. If you win your HTH but your opponent is eliminated then you carry forward all your winnings. The $$ carried forward will be used as a tie-breaker if more than one competitor finishes level on points. The competitor with the most points at the end of the final day is the Lucky 7 Cup winner. THE RULES 1. Players. It's an individual comp. If you miss a round just join in for the next one. 2. Selections/Closing time. Competitors are required to select THREE runners per race. No subs are to be posted with your original selections. All selections should be posted at the same time although I may make allowances if this is not possible due to late arrival for posting. The comp will close 45 minutes before the first comp race. This will be firmly adhered to as I have a lot of writing up to do. 3. Scratching Rule. You may post replacements for any scratching by making a new post clearly indicating your replacement selection(s). This may now be done any time up until 45 minutes before the first race which I will refer to as CLOSING TIME. After this point ALL selections are LOCKED IN. Late scratchings will then go to the TAB sub if not replaced prior to closing time. Normal scratchings will NOT BE REPLACED. If you have two late scratchings one will go to the TAB sub and the other will go to the TAB 2nd win fave. 4. Investments. Each selection will be regarded as an imaginary $10 each way bet. A $1 box quinella and a $1 box trifecta will combine all 3 selections. 5. Best Bet. Each selector may choose one race each round as a "best bet" race. All $$$ earned from these races will be doubled. In the event of scratchings the same best bet (BB) will apply. There will be no transference to a subsequent race. If your best bet race is abandoned - bad luck !@ 6. Elimination Card - Here's the catch ! THIS IS IMPORTANT. If you fail to collect twice - ie. from two of the comp races - during the course of they day, then you are automatically and immediately eliminated. Doesn't matter what your tally is at that point - you lose the lot ! So in other words to complete the day you are only allowed to draw one blank across the 7 races.

Thanks for that Richie, good info. Seems to be an ill that pervades NZ racing, if it is not broke, why try to fix it. We had it in thoroughbred with the supposed wonder of 2 new carnivals lol

And so they did

The theory was Howie, that you finished 1st and us 4th (it could still have easily happened as we were a definite contender to make 4th last week despite our poor form), and today we beat you, to go onto the final Then I woke up lol

Well done Sharne and the Magic, just got your nose in front when it counted. Bad luck team, we never played well enough to take this comp out, that's life, it's only a fun game. Commiserations to Styx and Kaos, you were by far the 2 best teams for most of the comp, but that is the beauty/tragedy of this fine format, set the standard all the way, but sudden death sees you both playing for 3rd and 4th. Heart breaking especially for Styx and Robert, to almost pull it out of the fire but come up short by a meagre 20 cents Thanks again PJ for the fun, much appreciated

Tassie tiger 118 Replied: 9 hours ago · IP WELL HERES MY TIPS,IF I HAVNT PLEASE CHECK FOR SCRATCHINGS FOR ME PLEASE/GO REAPERS. R1 1/2 R2 4/11 BB R3 1/3 R4 1/2 R5 1/5 R6 6/2 R7 1/5 R8 2/3 R9 7/8 BB R10 2/14 WELL THATS THUM,ALL THE BEST TO ALL AND THANKS PJ FOR A WONDERFUL COMP AND NICE WORDS FOR THE LOSS OF MY WIFE,TO YOU AND ALL AT RACE PLACE.TAZ.all scratchings changed,t/y. THAT'S THUM ALRIGHT

1. 1/9 2. 6/11 3. 1/6 4. 6/12 5. 1/9 bb 6. 1/4 7. 1/3 8. 3/8 9. 1/2 10. 2/14 bb Good luck Jammy, a hard to team get ahead of today, good luck Thanks as always PJ

1. 5 6 19 2. 1 7 3. AS 4. 3 5. AS 6. 12 14 15 7. AS 8. 16 9. 9 10. 8 17

You need to get out more, but I'm guessing you probably do lol

Good comp Pete, thanks for running this, always looks easy till you try as a few have found out (not looking at a few in particular lol). The spreadsheet skills required, comment and summary are not easy, and these comps just don't work unless it is all done before the next race. I just took Garrick Knights selections and was pleased to get a BB trifecta in the last. Having been to Cambridge Raceway many times, many years ago, it was good to see the crowds and atmosphere. PS: Whatever happened to the Harness Jewels?

1. 1/2/7 2. 3/7/12 3. 2/11/12 4. 3/4/9 5. 1/5/6 6. 2/3/4 7. 10/12/14 8. 7/9/11 bb 9. 1/2/5 bb Thanks Pete

I would postulate, from what Curious said about seeding, is that they have made the decision to seed to save costs, possibly because they were over budget with the excavation for drainage. Ellerslie is in the middle of about 6 extinct volcanic cones so lots of volcanic rock. In fact Barry posted a pic on here a while ago that showed a mountain of rock (I think they had made the decision to crush the rock to use as the second layer). Anyway, seeding takes a lot longer to produce an established turf surface, so they have tried to push it along, with the Jan 27 deadline in mind, by regular but shallow watering, hence the shallow root mass, and the problems that have manifested Just a theory

Not at all, just thinking out aloud But all the speculators don't actually know what has gone wrong. You will note from a previous post, that Strathayr have handled the project by having their man onsite as the project coordinator, so who has f,,,,ed up, incorrect technical advice from Strathayr or ATR overuling and doing it the way they want, we just don't know. I would agree with you on one thing, we are not going to get straight answers

Worst case scenario and they have to relay the track, it is not 55 mil down the gurgler, a lot less as it will only be the top 2 layers, the turf and mesh elements. Racing again at Pukekohe and Te Rapa might bruise a few egos though

One would hope it has settled and racing well for October when racing begins at Ellerslie, not this time next year, as that is a lot of racing to get through.

Just looking back, Martin Neville from Strathayr in Aus, who was the Ellerslie project coordinator (April 22 on), along with 3 other people from Strathayr were present on the job. So you could assume decisions were not taken in isolation by Ellerslie/ATR

Absolutely Seeding is ultimately better, but takes longer and they had a deadline of Jan 27

That would have escalated the cost even more, so probably why they decided to go with seeding

So, it is starting to look like they just raced on the track too soon, no doubt because of pressure that Karaka Million night was being held on Jan 27, non-negotiable

Okay thanks, I had not seen that, but assumed that is what had happened as the facilities are not available in NZ to do turfing at that scale.