Hesi Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I note yesterday at Trentham, that Hurdle got a 4 week holiday and 2K fine for causing the interference to Bonny Lass and subsequent clipped heels to Lincoln's Kruz that saw the jockey dislodged. Yet Bosson got a 3.5K fine for use of the whip on Quintessa for 3 consecutive strides, and a 1 week holiday. Why the difference in penalties. A G1 for Quintessa will see any fine paid by the connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) It's in accord with the penalty guidelines. https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Penalty Guidelines - Whip and Careless Riding..pdf Edited January 13 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 Thanks I note also with regard to the Telegraph, that 638 (4) (5) A Rider shall not unreasonably slow, reduce or check the speed of his or her horse to a degree that interferes, either directly or indirectly, with any other horse in the race. [Amended 1 August 2017] Riders on Mecurial and Express Yourself appeared to do this around the 600-800m (noted by Tony Lee) which caused the concertina effect and the severe interference. Yet no comment was made pertaining to this rule in the stipes report. The tactics worked as Mercurial and Express Yourself finished first and second, but at what cost to others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) You might be right, though to my eye, the pace seemed pretty even, albeit slow, the first 6-800. Sectionals will tell more. I didn't hear Tony suggest they'd suddenly slowed the pace, just that they'd got away with a slow pace. Edited January 14 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just watched it again and I think you're right. It was a slow pace from the off. I naively wonder why someone didn't take the initiative and make a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 The sectionals when they appear will be interesting to analyse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, pete said: Just watched it again and I think you're right. It was a slow pace from the off. I naively wonder why someone didn't take the initiative and make a move. Yes. Good question. Several horses wouldn't settle with the slow pace and over-raced, some quite badly. Jockeys either chose not to do anything about it or were not in a position to do so. Edited January 14 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Sectionals there now: https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/52466/8/Race-Detail.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Pocket talking but Maria Farina was one of the unlucky ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Doing the various subtractions with Mercurial, we have First 400m - 24.82 400-600 - 11.28 600- 800 - 10.33 800- 1000 - 10.31 1000-1200 - 11.77 ?????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I think that pretty much confirms it was slow from the get go. First 600 36.10, last 600 32.41. So, so no reason to consider applying 638(4)(5). The leaders are entitled to set whatever pace they want and it was the intractable racing manners of those behind and perhaps the inaction of jockeys that created the debacle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Legarto would have killed that Telegraph field 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Also trotted in, in the Thorndon. That is 2 G1's and million in stake competed for the same as the Karaka classic, that has no group or listed status. That is the extent to which the much proclaimed Karaka meeting has stuffed other racing in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buller Rep Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, curious said: I think that pretty much confirms it was slow from the get go. First 600 36.10, last 600 32.41. So, so no reason to consider applying 638(4)(5). The leaders are entitled to set whatever pace they want and it was the intractable racing manners of those behind and perhaps the inaction of jockeys that created the debacle. Disagree. Setting a stupidly slow pace will always cause problems. It's a race after all, not a parade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 hours ago, Buller Rep said: Disagree. Setting a stupidly slow pace will always cause problems. It's a race after all, not a parade. What do you disagree with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buller Rep Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, curious said: What do you disagree with? Setting a stupidly slow pace, like I said. A 36.10 opening 600m is incredibly slow for the class of horse involved. No wonder those in behind were bouncing around, all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Buller Rep said: Setting a stupidly slow pace, like I said. A 36.10 opening 600m is incredibly slow for the class of horse involved. No wonder those in behind were bouncing around, all over the place. One could argue that it is more stupid to take one back in behind in a race with no obvious speed or leader expecting anything different. It appeared to me that both, Not Guilty and Bonny Lass at least had the opportunity to go through to the lead at about the 1000 and ensure a stronger tempo but elected to take up and stay in behind. The ones bouncing around behind were doing so because they wouldn't settle. As I see it, that's their problem. There is no rule saying the leader must set a strong pace. Sometimes they don't want the lead and are hoping something will go around them and take it up so they get a sit in behind. That didn't happen here. I don't see how you can blame the leaders. Their strategy worked and their riders have done the job for their connections and supporters. Edited January 14 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 10 hours ago, Buller Rep said: Disagree. Setting a stupidly slow pace will always cause problems. It's a race after all, not a parade. Though, if you look at the sectional times, the problems started occurring at a point in the race, where the tempo had increased. I note also that they came the last 200m in a relatively slow time, which probably says more about the quality of the horses than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForValue Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 30 minutes ago, Hesi said: I note also that they came the last 200m in a relatively slow time, which probably says more about the quality of the horses than anything else They came home the last 200m slower because they ran the last 600m sub 33.5, Maria Farina 31.86. I don't know how accurate these times are as top class horses usually run 33 or so last 600m times. I have wondered for a while about these sectional times. noting that they occur often on the all weather tracks. There they run a slow first part of the race, running home strongly last 600m. By the way, Legarto ran 33.47 last 600m at Pukekoke on a G4 track in the Eight Carat Classic, 33.01 in the NZ 1000 Guineas (S5), 34.46 in the Soliloquy Stakes (G4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 The time was slow by Telegraph standards(1.08.51) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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