Whip Use Fines tec etc

[Hesi]

I note yesterday at Trentham, that Hurdle got a 4 week holiday and 2K fine for causing the interference to Bonny Lass and subsequent clipped heels to Lincoln's Kruz that saw the jockey dislodged.

Yet Bosson got a 3.5K fine for use of the whip on Quintessa for 3 consecutive strides, and a 1 week holiday.

Why the difference in penalties.  A G1 for Quintessa will see any fine paid by the connections.

[curious]

It's in accord with the penalty guidelines.

https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Penalty Guidelines - Whip and Careless Riding..pdf

 

Edited January 13 by curious

[Hesi]

Thanks

I note also with regard to the Telegraph, that

638

(4) (5) A Rider shall not unreasonably slow, reduce or check the speed of his or her horse to a degree that interferes, either directly or indirectly, with any other horse in the race. [Amended 1 August 2017]

Riders on Mecurial and Express Yourself appeared to do this around the 600-800m (noted by Tony Lee) which caused the concertina effect and the severe interference.  Yet no comment was made pertaining to this rule in the stipes report.  The tactics worked as Mercurial and Express Yourself finished first and second, but at what cost to others

[curious]

You might be right, though to my eye, the pace seemed pretty even, albeit slow, the first 6-800. Sectionals will tell more.

I didn't hear Tony suggest they'd suddenly slowed the pace, just that they'd got away with a slow pace.

Edited January 14 by curious

[pete]

Just watched it again and I think you're right. It was a slow pace from the off.

I naively wonder why someone didn't take the initiative and make a move.

[Hesi]

The sectionals when they appear will be interesting to analyse

[curious]

1 hour ago, pete said:

Just watched it again and I think you're right. It was a slow pace from the off.

I naively wonder why someone didn't take the initiative and make a move.

Yes. Good question. Several horses wouldn't settle with the slow pace and over-raced, some quite badly. Jockeys either chose not to do anything about it or were not in a position to do so.

Edited January 14 by curious

[pete]

Sectionals there now:

https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/52466/8/Race-Detail.aspx

[pete]

Pocket talking but Maria Farina was one of the unlucky ones.

[Hesi]

Doing the various subtractions with Mercurial, we have

First 400m - 24.82

400-600   - 11.28

600- 800    - 10.33

800- 1000   - 10.31

1000-1200    - 11.77

??????????

 

[curious]

I think that pretty much confirms it was slow from the get go. First 600 36.10, last 600 32.41. So, so no reason to consider applying 638(4)(5). The leaders are entitled to set whatever pace they want and it was the intractable racing manners of those behind and perhaps the inaction of jockeys that created the debacle.

[Hesi]

Agree

[Hesi]

Legarto would have killed that Telegraph field

[Hesi]

Also trotted in, in the Thorndon.  That is 2 G1's and million in stake competed for  the same as the Karaka classic, that has no group or listed status.  That is the extent to which the much proclaimed Karaka meeting has stuffed other racing in NZ

[Buller Rep]

3 hours ago, curious said:

I think that pretty much confirms it was slow from the get go. First 600 36.10, last 600 32.41. So, so no reason to consider applying 638(4)(5). The leaders are entitled to set whatever pace they want and it was the intractable racing manners of those behind and perhaps the inaction of jockeys that created the debacle.

Disagree. Setting a stupidly slow pace will always cause problems. It's a race after all, not a parade.

[curious]

4 hours ago, Buller Rep said:

Disagree. Setting a stupidly slow pace will always cause problems. It's a race after all, not a parade.

What do you disagree with?

[Buller Rep]

1 hour ago, curious said:

What do you disagree with?

Setting a stupidly slow pace, like I said. 
A 36.10 opening 600m is incredibly slow for the class of horse involved. No wonder those in behind were bouncing around, all over the place. 
 

[curious]

3 hours ago, Buller Rep said:

Setting a stupidly slow pace, like I said. 
A 36.10 opening 600m is incredibly slow for the class of horse involved. No wonder those in behind were bouncing around, all over the place. 
 

One could argue that it is more stupid to take one back in behind in a race with no obvious speed or leader expecting anything different. It appeared to me that both, Not Guilty and Bonny Lass at least had the opportunity to go through to the lead at about the 1000 and ensure a stronger tempo but elected to take up and stay in behind. The ones bouncing around behind were doing so because they wouldn't settle. As I see it, that's their problem. There is no rule saying the leader must set a strong pace. Sometimes they don't want the lead and are hoping something will go around them and take it up so they get a sit in behind. That didn't happen here. I don't see how you can blame the leaders. Their strategy worked and their riders have done the job for their connections and supporters.

Edited January 14 by curious

[Hesi]

10 hours ago, Buller Rep said:

Disagree. Setting a stupidly slow pace will always cause problems. It's a race after all, not a parade.

Though, if you look at the sectional times, the problems started occurring at a point in the race, where the tempo had increased.  I note also that they came the last 200m in a relatively slow time, which probably says more about the quality of the horses than anything else

[LookingForValue]

30 minutes ago, Hesi said:

 I note also that they came the last 200m in a relatively slow time, which probably says more about the quality of the horses than anything else

They came home the last 200m slower because they ran the last 600m sub 33.5, Maria Farina 31.86. I don't know how accurate these times are as top class horses usually run 33 or so last 600m times. I have wondered for a while about these sectional times. noting that they occur often on the all weather tracks. There they run a slow first part of the race, running home strongly last 600m. By the way, Legarto ran 33.47 last 600m at Pukekoke on a G4 track in the Eight Carat Classic, 33.01 in the NZ 1000 Guineas (S5), 34.46 in the Soliloquy Stakes (G4). 

[Hesi]

The time was slow by Telegraph standards(1.08.51)