Auckland

[karrotsishere]

Well Lightning Lady of the Light 4 from 4 now. Be interesting to see how see goes against the TOP 2 y-o fillies. 

Race 9 - last race on the programme. Oh dear. The winner was ploughing forth at the start getting a running up start. And the horses at the back like 10 ish metres behind or on the unruly, got all into a tangle with each other. YIKES. Was surprised a false start wasn't called. The winner was the horse that got the advantageous start, leading all the way. And the others they were checked at the start, there opportunity lost at the start. 

[karrotsishere]

Forgot to mention J Dickies final drive & he drove the winner. Getting J with it. It was clearly headed too in straight approx 20 metres out from line, but pushed back, to win. Giving him think the commentator said 450 winning drives. (Note haven't not checked this to be sure if this is factual - but from memory thats what the commentator said).

[Double R]

15 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Forgot to mention J Dickies final drive & he drove the winner. Getting J with it. It was clearly headed too in straight approx 20 metres out from line, but pushed back, to win. Giving him think the commentator said 450 winning drives. (Note haven't not checked this to be sure if this is factual - but from memory thats what the commentator said).

Yes, you are certainly right there. So dementia hasn't set in fully for you yet!!! Unlike me.

It was his 450th winning drive, and his last in New Zealand for a while, as he is heading off to Australia next week.

[karrotsishere]

The Trotters are on a roll. And GO them. Take it. 

10 races at Alex this week. 5 trotting races. Nice to see them getting a good portion of the card for a change. Feel they are often overlooked. After Sundee Sons win, gee maybe the trotting scene is on the rise. 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

@Double R Ultimate Missle lines up again after a nice 2nd at workouts. He's only 2. Didn't realise that. Any word as to how he is doing since his debut win? 😄

[Double R]

20 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

The Trotters are on a roll. And GO them. Take it. 

10 races at Alex this week. 5 trotting races. Nice to see them getting a good portion of the card for a change. Feel they are often overlooked. After Sundee Sons win, gee maybe the trotting scene is on the rise. 

 

The trotters are more than holding their own on Friday night for sure.

As Karrots says, there are five trotting races in which there are 44 acceptors. The pacers have 5 races, with 40 acceptors.

Do you think you might have to get a trotter Karrots, if you haven't already got one????

[Double R]

2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

@Double R Ultimate Missle lines up again after a nice 2nd at workouts. He's only 2. Didn't realise that. Any word as to how he is doing since his debut win? 😄

I would expect a bold showing on Friday night, Karrots.

It is over the old fashion distance of one mile (1609 Metres) so it is going to be race with very little let up, so it will be interesting to see how he copes so early in his racing career, against the older horses who have each had from 7 to 53 starts, and the racing experience. 

[Mike]

3 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

@Double R Ultimate Missle lines up again after a nice 2nd at workouts. He's only 2. Didn't realise that. Any word as to how he is doing since his debut win? 😄

He's 2 under the new"horse's birthday" Karrots

If no one has told him his birthday has changed he'll think he's 3

Mike

[Double R]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

He's 2 under the new"horse's birthday" Karrots

If no one has told him his birthday has changed he'll think he's 3

Mike

Hi Mike,

Correct regarding the new horse birthday changing to the 1st of January.

However, he is still only two by his true birth date, as he was foaled on the 26th of November.

Interestingly, when we had Jack's Legend, he was a January foal, and actually ran 2nd in the N.Z.Cup, when his foaling date made him a three year old.

Cheers.

Robert.

[Mike]

39 minutes ago, Double R said:

Hi Mike,

Correct regarding the new horse birthday changing to the 1st of January.

However, he is still only two by his true birth date, as he was foaled on the 26th of November.

Interestingly, when we had Jack's Legend, he was a January foal, and actually ran 2nd in the N.Z.Cup, when his foaling date made him a three year old.

Cheers.

Robert.

Quite right Robert, appreciate the point, but most horses are foaled in October or November aren't they?

My point really was, if we were chatting 12 months ago, this horse would have a 3yo beside his name, now he has a 2yo showing

I had reservations when I firts heard of th date change, but there seem to be quite a few positives

The young horse being bigger and stronger obviously!

Jack's Legend went ok, I think he went to USA didn't he?

How did he go there?

My guess is he would have won quite a few races and been a great asset, without quite being in the Top FFA classes

Mike

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mike

[karrotsishere]

3 hours ago, Double R said:

The trotters are more than holding their own on Friday night for sure.

As Karrots says, there are five trotting races in which there are 44 acceptors. The pacers have 5 races, with 40 acceptors.

Do you think you might have to get a trotter Karrots, if you haven't already got one????

Well the cost to get in seems to be less. And do recall reading an article when L Chin said he converted as found he was much more competitive. And now with all these races programmed at Alex. Food for thought I suppose. 

[Double R]

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

Quite right Robert, appreciate the point, but most horses are foaled in October or November aren't they?

My point really was, if we were chatting 12 months ago, this horse would have a 3yo beside his name, now he has a 2yo showing

I had reservations when I firts heard of th date change, but there seem to be quite a few positives

The young horse being bigger and stronger obviously!

Jack's Legend went ok, I think he went to USA didn't he?

How did he go there?

My guess is he would have won quite a few races and been a great asset, without quite being in the Top FFA classes

Mike

Yes, agree Mike, he would have been three if the season hadn't changed.

Jack's Legend is still winning over in the US. His fastest time is 1.49.1.

Something that I didn't realise with the change of season to the first of January, the breeding season will not change. I had thought horses would needed to be foaled after the 1st of January, and turn one the following January, but no, horses foaled before January 2022, will not be one until January 2023. I think that is right.

[Double R]

3 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Well the cost to get in seems to be less. And do recall reading an article when L Chin said he converted as found he was much more competitive. And now with all these races programmed at Alex. Food for thought I suppose. 

Hi Karrots,

The very first horse I had 48 years ago was a trotter, and back then the formula for a trotter was it needed to get 10,000 training miles into them to be ready to race. It was a time thing. No two year old races, and there might have been two or three, three year old races. Back then, if you had a reliable trotter you could just about be guaranteed to be in the money.

 

[Globederby19]

13 minutes ago, Double R said:

Hi Karrots,

The very first horse I had 48 years ago was a trotter, and back then the formula for a trotter was it needed to get 10,000 training miles into them to be ready to race. It was a time thing. No two year old races, and there might have been two or three, three year old races. Back then, if you had a reliable trotter you could just about be guaranteed to be in the money.

 

They used to race until 12 or 13 yrs old as well. Easton Light was 13 I think and still winning big races. 

[karrotsishere]

14 hours ago, Mike said:

Jack's Legend went ok, I think he went to USA didn't he?

How did he go there?

Hey M

If you (or anyone else that hasn't read it) take a peak thru the Q & A on Double R, under Karrots Q & A it talks about J Legend. How he won G1 Jewels at age 3, same year a bit later was 2nd to Laz in NZ CUP. Then a bit later he got a virus, which knocked him around a bit & left him 1 -2 lengths off his best. Never to regain those 1-2 lengths. Hence the decision was made to sell him Stateside. 

12 hours ago, Double R said:

Hi Karrots,

The very first horse I had 48 years ago was a trotter, and back then the formula for a trotter was it needed to get 10,000 training miles into them to be ready to race. It was a time thing. No two year old races, and there might have been two or three, three year old races. Back then, if you had a reliable trotter you could just about be guaranteed to be in the money.

Hi R,

this site really needs a react wow button lol. It funny in hindsight what in this day, compared to years ago is different very different whether it be racing or other things in life. Re racing wonder what it is that is currently being done that in years to come, the future will be like, (they used to do this - crazy stuff) lol.

[Mike]

15 hours ago, Double R said:

Yes, agree Mike, he would have been three if the season hadn't changed.

Jack's Legend is still winning over in the US. His fastest time is 1.49.1.

Something that I didn't realise with the change of season to the first of January, the breeding season will not change. I had thought horses would needed to be foaled after the 1st of January, and turn one the following January, but no, horses foaled before January 2022, will not be one until January 2023. I think that is right.

That is 100% right

It removes any benefit from breeding to USA time as the odd person did, but that was back in the halycon sales days

1.49.1 ain't too shabby 

Mike

[Double R]

1 hour ago, karrotsishere said:

Hey M

If you (or anyone else that hasn't read it) take a peak thru the Q & A on Double R, under Karrots Q & A it talks about J Legend. How he won G1 Jewels at age 3, same year a bit later was 2nd to Laz in NZ CUP. Then a bit later he got a virus, which knocked him around a bit & left him 1 -2 lengths off his best. Never to regain those 1-2 lengths. Hence the decision was made to sell him Stateside. 

Hi R,

this site really needs a react wow button lol. It funny in hindsight what in this day, compared to years ago is different very different whether it be racing or other things in life. Re racing wonder what it is that is currently being done that in years to come, the future will be like, (they used to do this - crazy stuff) lol.

Hi Karrots.

There is a very clear indication observed by us long time participants, and that is the insertion of overseas speed sires, combined, in general, with the staying breed of the N.Z.mares, is producing a horse that has speed that can be sustained for over our longer distances.

30 or 40 years ago the general formula to be on target for the Cup was, you needed to be at the races in August, and there were not the same amount of trials and workouts in those days.

Racing these days will see many Cup horses not starting their preparations  under two months, and probably only have three lead up races, to the Cup.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Double R

[Lightning Blue]

14 hours ago, Globederby19 said:

They used to race until 12 or 13 yrs old as well. Easton Light was 13 I think and still winning big races. 

Absolutely Globe!!! . Easton Light won at 13 years old in 1978 , my first year gong to the trots. I remember him well from that , and my dad saying to me, when Easton Light won that night, That the Winner was born the same year as me back in 64'. and is old as the hills for a horse, but still Winning.

Easton Light winning the big Auckland trotting FFA  defeating Framalda of Purdons and Nigel Craig (Nz record holder) at his ripe old age.

[Globederby19]

39 minutes ago, Double R said:

There is a very clear indication observed by us long time participants, and that is the insertion of overseas speed sires, combined, in general, with the staying breed of the N.Z.mares, is producing a horse that has speed that can be sustained for over our longer distances.

So right Robert.

[Globederby19]

5 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

defeating Framalda

Back story to that horse. Was owned by Frank Mooney a stalwart of the Seatoun bowling club and a hard case,as were his cronies. In their early days they used to have races to see who could get to Taupo the quickest in their Jags. Very few police cars present and anyway they were quicker than any police car, much like Bonney and Clyde were in the stolen Flathead V8,s which prompted Clyde to write to Henry Ford ,congratulating him on the quality of his cars. 🤣

[Lightning Blue]

15 hours ago, Double R said:

The very first horse I had 48 years ago was a trotter, and back then the formula for a trotter was it needed to get 10,000 training miles into them to be ready to race.

 

On 11/15/2021 at 3:30 PM, karrotsishere said:

10 races at Alex this week. 5 trotting races. Nice to see them getting a good portion of the card for a change. Feel they are often overlooked. After Sundee Sons win, gee maybe the trotting scene is on the rise.

Was quite hard to get trotters to do much at a young age. Agree with Robert that a zillion miles are involved. As Globe was saying the Great Evander sire was prodominant for years , like Easton Light and Petite Evander (a grand Auckland trotter who went to Usa and Europe to compete for the Weaver family.

Here's a funny one for you Karrots, an aged Great Evander mare named 'Peg Evander' (right side in this old photo) was the very first trotter I drove , she never got much better with age lol, as she had more fancy trot steps than a French cabaret 'can-can' dancer lol. She did win some here and there but a crazy drive.

but the funny bit is Don Hayes at Kumeu had her as a maiden trotter , and once, he was half the length of the straight in front at the Ruakaka shifting sands track, and then the Sulky Fell to Pieces !! hahaha.... one in a trillion chance, so Don was on a 'sled' over the line but 'Wolfie' had gone past her unfortunately . so she still got a 2nd placing. lol. We couldn't stop laughing at that mis-fortune. Talk about ways you can get beaten? , but that was one you'll likely Never see again lol.

[karrotsishere]

Heres an interesting article about state of affairs at ATC. Saw on Harness Link NZ news site. 

https://harnesslink.com/new-zealand/dire-picture-painted-by-auckland-trotting-club-auditor/

[karrotsishere]

37 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Heres an interesting article about state of affairs at ATC. Saw on Harness Link NZ news site. 

https://harnesslink.com/new-zealand/dire-picture-painted-by-auckland-trotting-club-auditor/

* 32 million in interest is pretty heavy duty since 2015 when building began.

* The secrecy around sales is a red flag.

Despite frequent requests to the ATC board it had refused to offer the land for sale on the open market and since late last year appeared to have an exclusive arrangement with Gleneagles, a financial services company. 

With land values having soared in the last 12 months Myles believes the board, as trustees of the club, an incorporated society, has clearly breached its fiduciary duty to strike the best possible deal for the members.

* Drawing down 31 million of a 37 ish million loan from 2020, with interest due soon - yikes. 

* Liked - this bit re Myles won't charge if elected. 

Myles has tallied up Croon’s director’s fees as more than $400,000 since 2002 and says he will forego any payment if elected because the club cannot afford it.

* The clubs legal fees in past 2 years are more than 6 million - yikes.

* The debt is now more than the assets - yikes.

The club’s plans are detailed in its long overdue annual report sent to members in which the 2021 accounts auditor reveals that as at July 31 the club’s liabilities exceeded its assets by $76.2 million.

Think after reading this on Team Myles. Of course there are always 2 sides to every story. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

Here’s a recap 2014 article pre development written by B Litcher same author as article posted above. Interesting bits from article below.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/63679175/auckland-trots-out-costly-gamble-to-rescue-racing

A special general meeting of members has voted for the Auckland Trotting Club to proceed with a $200 million building project at 223 Green Lane West - despite one dire warning that it will spell the end of trotting in Auckland if it fails.

Little more than 100 of the club's 600 members gathered at Alexandra Park on Wednesday evening for what board chairman Kerry Hoggard described as the most significant meeting in the club's history.

And while a handful of members opposed the bold plan, one describing property development as the most dangerous game you can play, just half a dozen voted against it, the majority accepting that taking a calculated risk was preferable to the slow death that harness racing in the north was facing.

ATC chief executive Dominique Dowding outlined the board's new proposal for land bordering Green Lane Rd, recently gained building consent unlocking its full potential and allowing a much more ambitious development with no height restrictions.

Hoggard said it was imperative to inject another million dollars a year into stakes, particularly at the lower end.

This would, in turn, increase the number of horses racing at Alexandra Park and provide more than $4 million a year for maintenance and future developments.

The number of industry participants in the North Island was down to 4,745, and still declining.

Member Gavin Logan said the board could expect all those potential pitfalls, and more, to happen with the likelihood of it losing half its calculated margin of profit.

"I don't believe this is something a trotting club should be doing. You don't appreciate all the risks until you do it," he said.

A former property developer, Logan said if the market dropped suddenly the board could expect 20 to 30 per cent of the apartments not to sell.

"And all pre-sales do is lock you in (to a set price). Then costs go up.

"I looked at this project and thought it was madness. Property development is the most dangerous game you can play. Hidden things come up. We're all familiar with the finance companies that went broke in the financial collapse. They all lent to property developers. This is the sort of project that sent them broke.

"If this goes awry, you can expect to lose $30 million to $50 million. Selling your land won't cover it. The banks will come after everything."

Logan asked why the club didn't reduce risk by getting a cashed-up firm to do the building, but retaining the right to buy back the retail space.

Hoggard said the returns were not attractive with joint ventures.

Another member urged the board to wait a year given a predicted dairy downturn could affect the market.

But Hoggard said the board was keen to exploit the window of opportunity that existed now with strong immigration into Auckland.

Hoggard said the near unanimous approval by the members was a real vote of confidence.

[karrotsishere]

Another interesting article from 2014 re horses training evicted from site - of note both interviewed in article Mr T Vince & Mr D McCaughan are no longer training.  https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/10186443/Move-to-hobble-Auckland-club-restrictions

A former president of the Auckland Trotting Club wants the board to suspend its notice to terminate training and other horse activities at Alexandra Park pending a special meeting of members.

Terry Quinn has lodged a written request for a special general meeting with ATC chief executive Dominique Dowding in the wake of the board's decision to evict horses stabled on the course and stop casual users from training at Alexandra Park.

In 1988, when the ATC tried to evict trainers from the park, the issue went before the September annual general meeting.

Alexandra Park trainer Des McCaughan, one of four people who had horses boxed on the course at the time, put the following resolution: "That the Auckland Trotting Club promotes harness racing by allowing maximum use of facilities at Alexandra Park including training tracks and permanent stabling, with preference for such use being given to club members." It was passed unanimously, with unprecedented loud clapping and cheering, which the then Owners', Trainers' and Breeders' Association president Max Robinson said was a victory for trotting , not just the affected four.

Tim Vince, who says he will have to give up if he can't train at Alexandra Park, says the board needs to address whether the 1988 resolution applies and whether it can be overturned without going back to the members.

And Vince says he has had advice that the board also needs to consult with members before signing any deal with the Blues.

Dowding denied the training ban had anything to do with the Blues proposal. She again cited health and safety reasons for closing the track to training at the end of next month, after a recent incident with a runaway horse.

But Quinn and disaffected trainers believe that is only a smokescreen.

When Vince and fellow trainer Ted Edwards suggested a sliding electronic gate could prevent horses from escaping the track, Dowding's response was "the cost was found to be prohibitive."

In his speech to the meeting at the time, McCaughan said committee members were hypocrites if they could stress throughout the night that the future of the club depended on getting more people to the park yet they would not encourage others to train there.

Edited December 7, 2021 by karrotsishere