ngakonui grass Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Can anyone explain Te Akau's dominance. It must be concerning to other trainers surely. What are they doing that allows their horses to explode from the pack and win easily? Question to satisfy my interest,do they have a galloping treadmill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Maybe it's a numbers game NG. They have a lot of slow horses that probably never make it to the racetrack?? We have seen 2 other particular instances of horses literally exploding from the pack and winning easily in the last few days, that were not Te Akau horses. Polygon and Weowna Tiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 The bigger concern, is the effect the Te Akau dominance may have on others in the industry. 10 races, 5 Te Akau winners. If you were an owner, where would you be trying to place your horse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Here are some very interesting stats on the top lots $400,000 and above brought by te akau since 2017 all brought at karaka. It does not paint a very good picture. . . . . . . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Noverre retired to Waikato Stud March last year $10,000 fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 29 minutes ago, Hesi said: Noverre retired to Waikato Stud March last year $10,000 fee But other than that not a very good strike rate later on I will give you some real interesting states based on the above....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Yes agree Te Akau do a lot of good for the industry, but their results should be open to scrutiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Excellent info, interested also in seeing their otherpurchases, ie below $400k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 All of those horses were syndicated except Medal, which was raced by Waikato Stud While on the subject of bargain buys, there was a horse in R2 at Trentham, racing in the colours made famous by Veandercross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Allovertheform said: Here are some very interesting stats on the top lots $400,000 and above brought by te akau since 2017 all brought at karaka. It does not paint a very good picture. . . . . . . Going off my statistics above, It cost $593,636.36 per Win not including training fees etc, with return Winning stakes of $733,000 won for an invested sales total of $13,060,000 so for every dollar invested via Te Akau Racing you got a total of 0.05 so a 95% Loss on initial investment and in my personal opinion at this level your not buying a race horse your making an investment, yet people go on how good they are well this info paints another story. and dont forget to add the $108 + 15% GST per horse for training fees. . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 You are only looking at the top end stuff though. You would need to look and analyse the data for all purchases over set period of time to get a more accurate indication of their performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Hesi said: You are only looking at the top end stuff though. You would need to look and analyse the data for all purchases over set period of time to get a more accurate indication of their performance Going off the top stuff as that's what the pride themselfs on being big buyers at the sales. . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 As is always the case, the cheaper purchases are the best value. No one in his right mind would 'invest' in the most expensive yearlings. 9 out of 10 are cabbage. Mates of mine bought a majority share in a Darci Brahma filly from Book 3 .cost $1500 ....she was weak and small and basically 'fire saled'. Just a pony but had a huge heart, high cruising speed and won 6 races from 1200m to 2200 and over $150k. MM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 42 minutes ago, Hesi said: You are only looking at the top end stuff though. You would need to look and analyse the data for all purchases over set period of time to get a more accurate indication of their performance It will be very similar results due to the top heavy purchases not delivering the results like they predicted at the time of purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 So ...whats the median purchase price and median $$ earned on the track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Maximus said: So ...whats the median purchase price and median $$ earned on the track? What's that got to do with there strike rate with there high purchases not measuring up to there price...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 nothing...but would be an interesting analysis of their overall involvement. Since you have their top end stats mebbe you have their bottom ;end stats as well and the overall median purchase price/median stk earnings would be a good way to see the overall picture MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 So what is the reason for Ellis keeping on buying all these high priced yearlings, when. as you have shown with your data, he is not really getting very good results. Is it an ego thing, is it the best way he can see of getting a champion horse. He might as well buy $100K yearlings for syndication, or would that not go down as well with potential syndicate owners, a 'cheapo' horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Maizcay Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 the owners keep supporting him so he is doing something right - they're the only ones he has to answer to if the results are as bad as you're making out, then they'd be letting their feet do the talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Maximus said: nothing...but would be an interesting analysis of their overall involvement. Since you have their top end stats mebbe you have their bottom ;end stats as well and the overall median purchase price/median stk earnings would be a good way to see the overall picture MM No I don't have Over all stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Our Maizcay said: the owners keep supporting him so he is doing something right - they're the only ones he has to answer to if the results are as bad as you're making out, then they'd be letting their feet do the talking I am not making anything out data does not lie and there top end data is not what I would call outstanding, and when you buy in the volume they do it's easy to manipulate the over all figures. Edited January 7, 2023 by Allovertheform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Maizcay Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 who's manipulating figures? this thread is almost starting to read like some sort of conspiracy or fraud is taking place he buys horses, he syndicates them, people choose to join, they know what it costs, they pay their bills, if they want out they can, .... like I said, the only people he needs to answer to are the owners 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allovertheform Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Our Maizcay said: who's manipulating figures? this thread is almost starting to read like some sort of conspiracy or fraud is taking place he buys horses, he syndicates them, people choose to join, they know what it costs, they pay their bills, if they want out they can, .... like I said, the only people he needs to answer to are the owners That's your interpretation of what's being said. But if you can come to that conclusion from the data I have provided you might be onto something. Edited January 7, 2023 by Allovertheform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Our Maizcay said: who's manipulating figures? this thread is almost starting to read like some sort of conspiracy or fraud is taking place he buys horses, he syndicates them, people choose to join, they know what it costs, they pay their bills, if they want out they can, .... like I said, the only people he needs to answer to are the owners Fair point OM But why do people continue to support such poor top end results 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Our Maizcay said: who's manipulating figures? this thread is almost starting to read like some sort of conspiracy or fraud is taking place he buys horses, he syndicates them, people choose to join, they know what it costs, they pay their bills, if they want out they can, .... like I said, the only people he needs to answer to are the owners Well put, the tall poppy syndrome alive and well and nice to see it chopped down. Where would NZ racing be without Te Akau. Whilst I have little interest, almost zero in fact, in NZ Racing, I would think without TA it would be worse than it is and it certainly ain't great today. Edited January 7, 2023 by Turny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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