read it and weep

[Lightning Blue]

8 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

There will be a job for you when Woodham retires. You will fit it in nicely.

Oh, Did you read the article posted?

No I didn't read the article . and CEO too 'big' for me. Was asked to apply for stewards job , but declined (too scared what you might find in Stable Raids lol  ...) that should be a job for the police with a warrant , not stewards doing Stable raids. likely to turn nasty at any stage . ask McGrath or Orange.

11 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

 

No idea what i'm talking about you say ?   ....What are we talking about then Happy ? I've been around a little while. must have some idea surely ?? 

[Happy Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

No idea what i'm talking about you say ?   ....What are we talking about then Happy ? I've been around a little while. must have some idea surely ?? 

Where you say Entebee and I are jealous etc. I can't really help if you quote a blank.

I am told you are bringing my username up on BOAY. I would prefer if you didn't as that site is run by a person who uses multiple usernames to generate the discussion.

[Lightning Blue]

22 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Where you say Entebee and I are jealous etc. I can't really help if you quote a blank.

I am told you are bringing my username up on BOAY. I would prefer if you didn't as that site is run by a person who uses multiple usernames to generate the discussion.

Well the blank quote was where you said I don't know what i'm talking about , and that's what you wrote . and you know it. 

I discussed with Enteebee the SERIOUS allegations you guys keep inferring about trainers , and Woodend Beach. I say Spellbound and I'm Off and Gone are going much better since leaving there , so can't understand your rationale ?? you were quite animated and angry and Craigos gave a reply as well about it.

Where's your evidence ? just because Jones and Alford were in that area??  is honestly a LAUGHABLE reason. 

I realise you are locked (like Enteebee as well ) with some duel with other folk on other forums , but I do as I please thanks . 

Personally today I looked at that PETER PROFIT site that Karrots was on about and am totally horrified . You guys are surely more supportive of your trainers and harness racing than that idiot??   He was slandering anyone and everyone . a total loser. just a shame to see anything like that here as well . 

I apologised to Enteebee as thought he was a rival owner , you say you are not involved at all so am surprised with your inferences.

I know a lot of trainers and owners in both countries and the way they speak of each other is not that great . It's a rivalry . It is Normal. They're trying to beat each other. 

But calling Cheat all the time is DAMAGING to THE INDUSTRY . Am sure you understand that ??? or I don't know what i'm talking about lol......  lol

[Rusty]

3 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

You  (happy, rusty) are truly being UNKIND to some of Nz best horsepeople  . Jacinda won't be happy !!!! lol.........

Hey comrade Lightning Blue, that's a bit unkind saying I'm unkind to some of NZ's best horsepeople. 

I can honestly say I've never said a bad word against any of NZ's besthorsepeople; Phil Williamson, Paul Nairn, Jimmy Curtain, Ken Barron, Jamie Richards, Lisa Allpress, David Walsh etc, etc, all NZ's best horsepeople in my opinion. 

[Rusty]

3 hours ago, Enteebee said:

There are many honest trainers who share our concerns and all are talking about it but they cant say anything in public because of the rules of the executive.

100% dead right. 

And not just honest trainers, which most are by the way, but also other industry participants too (like drivers, owners, breeders, even farriers and vets that I know), many of them all share the same concerns, but can't say boo about it publicly. 

[Trotslover]

I have a question why with all the wire tapping in inca inquiry wasn,t allstars caught talking about doping horses etc

it went on for quite a significant period [phone taping etc ] surely it would have come up in conversations like it did with others

 

[Purple Parsnip]

13 minutes ago, Trotslover said:

I have a question why with all the wire tapping in inca inquiry wasn,t allstars caught talking about doping horses etc

it went on for quite a significant period [phone taping etc ] surely it would have come up in conversations like it did with others

 

They faced no charges so I am thinking not. I don't think horse doping was a charge anyone faced.

[Trotslover]

15 minutes ago, Purple Parsnip said:

They faced no charges so I am thinking not. I don't think horse doping was a charge anyone faced.

txt messages on day of addington derby about giving some help to a couple of horses from one stable was intercepted by police 

 

[Purple Parsnip]

24 minutes ago, Trotslover said:

txt messages on day of addington derby about giving some help to a couple of horses from one stable was intercepted by police 

 

ah yes the float driver in his 50s

charged with conspiring with another person to manipulate a race result by "administering a substance" to a horse before the race "in order to gain a pecuniary advantage, namely the winning stakes".

not all stars though

Edited February 1, 2022 by Purple Parsnip

[Trotslover]

1 minute ago, Purple Parsnip said:

ah yes the 50yo float driver

not all stars though

correct but what am getting at is there was extensive listening going on for an extended period and no dirt on allstars

if what people are instigating what goes on at that stable i,m flabbergasted that nothing was caught on tape

[Globederby19]

2 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

No I didn't read the article .

Well go and read it and then comment . An analogy would be a Christian asking an Atheist if he had searched for God and read the Bible. No I haven't was the reply. Then you are not an atheist ,you are a moron. If you get my drift.

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

Hey comrade Lightning Blue, that's a bit unkind saying I'm unkind to some of NZ's best horsepeople. 

I can honestly say I've never said a bad word against any of NZ's besthorsepeople; Phil Williamson, Paul Nairn, Jimmy Curtain, Ken Barron, Jamie Richards, Lisa Allpress, David Walsh etc, etc, all NZ's best horsepeople in my opinion. 

I do apologise. I am getting flustered as read for the first time (and the LAST time)  the Peter Profit site . I do respect peoples opinion usually but reading that tripe (thankfully i can't read the whole articles without signing up ) but the headlines were SICKENING. Robert Dunn and Chris Garrard made to seem like Scum of the earth ?????

Chris Garrard he labelled crooked?  Chris ? 80 odd years old who has pumped $100,000 's into NZ and Oz trotting. god help us.....

Totally disgusted , and then the carry=on here is a bit of melted icing on top. Carry on fellas !!

Bag ya best horseman if ya want . sink the boot like Peter profit  .. and yeah call me a moron if ya want Globe . All good.. 

At least I respect harness racing and endeavoured to push fun here with it , as well as a little quiz and competition. 

No way is that Peter Profit Guy a kiwi or a QLDer surely? must be Taliban  or something that just hate people like that to SLANDER the game , sink the Boot .

 

[Lightning Blue]

27 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

2 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

 

Well go and read it and then comment . An analogy would be a Christian asking an Atheist if he had searched for God and read the Bible. No I haven't was the reply. Then you are not an atheist ,you are a moron. If you get my drift.

Mate , I've put on my hard heart now as it's getting like Ukraine v Russia lol... Braveheart Mad Max Mel has to toughen up.

I can't read that tripe . It's some moron raving on about EPO etc, and the DOOM of THE RACING WORLD . It's probably peter Profit again.???

I would say it is Written by a Moron. so if I'm a moron for not reading it (the lead item of this thread ) that's fine by me.

Go Read it and enjoy yourself ???  it won't help you any....

 

[Happy Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

I realise you are locked (like Enteebee as well ) with some duel with other folk on other forums , but I do as I please thanks . 

I am not in a duel with other posters. I don't understand why you would refer to me on a site where I don't post. Most posters there wouldn't even know who I am. Strange.

Although I do know, like Karrots has pointed out that some of them post here. Far too much is Huntertherpunter who is impersonating a poster they did not like by using their moniker and actually signed using the real name of the poster they are impersonating. Hunter is fervent supporter of some stables eg McGrath and if Karrots is right that he is now with the Dunns then his support for them is no surprise.

2 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

Where's your evidence ?

There are many parallels about connections that don't add up in harness at the moment. You can see what I think in another thread.

We will not agree on this. You think I am being negative and looking for stuff that isn't there but I feel you don't actually know what is happening at the grassroots of harness at the moment. I don't want to keep this slinging match going so lets leave it.

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

100% dead right. 

And not just honest trainers, which most are by the way, but also other industry participants too (like drivers, owners, breeders, even farriers and vets that I know), many of them all share the same concerns, but can't say boo about it publicly. 

Sadly true.

[Lightning Blue]

7 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

There are many parallels about connections that don't add up in harness at the moment. You can see what I think in another thread.

We will not agree on this. You think I am being negative and looking for stuff that isn't there but I feel you don't actually know what is happening at the grassroots of harness at the moment. I don't want to keep this slinging match going so lets leave it.

Yes just read that . Very good article you wrote . you do Way better than profit or the idiot writing the lead article attachment on this thread .

I prefered not to "read and weep" as suggested,  but get angry instead !!!   lol... yes am finished slinging too. 

Sorry to NTB and Rusty too , I'm always championing the harness game. can't help myself.,, automatic defense of something I love.. do the same for AFL and cricket lol....   

[karrotsishere]

12 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

Personally today I looked at that PETER PROFIT site that Karrots was on about and am totally horrified . 

Morning, you must have mis-read or mis-interpreted what I said, just bullet pointed some things that were included the Irish publication. Not that I meant go to his website or anything of anything bullet pointed. He was just referenced in a piece of it. The author is by a Mr W Jones from Ireland. It is actually well written.

Edited February 1, 2022 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

14 hours ago, Lightning Blue said:

sorry for being grumpy today Karrots. my Brain has cooked in 35 degree heat today  lol 😆, but thunderstorm here soon to cool it up !!

Hey does Olivia get the drive on Self Assured ?? looks like an ALLSTARS trifecta ????

1

X11111

Franco Indie

3

g

R71

1

Ft

Natalie Rasmussen

Mark Purdon & Hayden Cullen

2

163053

Taipo

5

g

R71

2

Ft

Todd Mitchell

Arna Donnelly

3

2111X1

Akuta

3

g

R71

3

Ft

Mark Purdon

Mark Purdon & Hayden Cullen

4

468205

Franco Niven

6

g

R74

4

Ft

Peter Ferguson

Robert & Jenna Dunn

5

234142

Steel The Show

5

g

R78

5

Ft

John Dunn

Robert & Jenna Dunn

6

066744

Dance Time

7

g

R82

6

Ft

Zachary Butcher

Steve & Amanda Telfer

7

X11352

B D Joe

4

g

R83

7

Ft

Benjamin Butcher

Steve & Amanda Telfer

8

311221

Self Assured

6

g

R120

8

Ft

Mark Purdon & Hayden Cullen

Interesting, Rassmussen & Purdon have taken the drives on the too young horses over 2021 NZ Cup winner Self Assured. Maybe due to the short distance & preferential barrier draw. In HRNZ Purdon states that he doesn't expect the young horses to beat top O/C horses. But he wanted to give them a run before Millions race, (obviously missed past 2 races) McKendry will get the catch drive on S.A. Be interesting to see who comes 1st past the post out of Franco Indie & Akuta? 

Noted in the 2 yo race its down to only 6 runners after all 3-4 of Greens nom-ed withdraw. 

Oscar B has been moved on from the ALL Stars Barn, due to leg flare up that has always been there. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Double R]

17 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Interesting, Rassmussen & Purdon have taken the drives on the too young horses over 2021 NZ Cup winner Self Assured. Maybe due to the short distance & preferential barrier draw. Yes wonder who will get the drive on S.A? Be interesting to see who comes 1st past the post out of Franco Indie & Akuta. 

Noted in the 2 yo race its down to only 6 runners after all 3-4 of Greens nom-ed withdraw. 

It certainly is interesting, as Mark does have to drive Akuta, as he is a part owner.

[karrotsishere]

6 minutes ago, Double R said:

It certainly is interesting, as Mark does have to drive Akuta, as he is a part owner.

Oh roger that re owner. Of course makes sense.

I edited my post to say Mckendry is driving as per HRNZ article. 

But yeah be good race. He said they didnt expect 3yos to beat the older horses esp Not Self Assured. 

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, karrotsishere said:

Interesting, Rassmussen & Purdon have taken the drives on the too young horses over 2021 NZ Cup winner Self Assured. Maybe due to the short distance & preferential barrier draw. In HRNZ Purdon states that he doesn't expect the young horses to beat top O/C horses. But he wanted to give them a run before Millions race, (obviously missed past 2 races) McKendry will get the catch drive on S.A. Be interesting to see who comes 1st past the post out of Franco Indie & Akuta? 

Noted in the 2 yo race its down to only 6 runners after all 3-4 of Greens nom-ed withdraw. 

Oscar B has been moved on from the ALL Stars Barn, due to leg flare up that has always been there. 

Was surprised Oscar B wasn't tackling the Great Southern Star this week , after his fab NZ trotting FFA win over shorter trips. thought something might be amiss.  Temporale has popped over to have a crack for Suzanne Herlihy and his band of proud owners. Hope he can take it out !!!

Mark owns a chunk of AKUTA , so seems fitting he would drive him. Potentially the next Big thing , or could that be Indie ?? 

That's a surprise then ?? with old Maurice Mac driving SELF ASSURED !!!  thought he was their main rival all the time on COPY THAT , etc.

wonder why brother-in-law Herlihy not driving for Mark that race on Self Assured ??

AGH drove Krug for Dalgety a while back in Derby. wonder Nat didn't give Mango the drive then , as payback for South Coast Arden drives.

McKendry ? where's the rivalry gone ? one big happy family .not great for competition. 

[karrotsishere]

32 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

Was surprised Oscar B wasn't tackling the Great Southern Star this week , after his fab NZ trotting FFA win over shorter trips. thought something might be amiss.  Temporale has popped over to have a crack for Suzanne Herlihy and his band of proud owners. Hope he can take it out !!!

Mark owns a chunk of AKUTA , so seems fitting he would drive him. Potentially the next Big thing , or could that be Indie ?? 

That's a surprise then ?? with old Maurice Mac driving SELF ASSURED !!!  thought he was their main rival all the time on COPY THAT , etc.

wonder why brother-in-law Herlihy not driving for Mark that race on Self Assured ??

AGH drove Krug for Dalgety a while back in Derby. wonder Nat didn't give Mango the drive then , as payback for South Coast Arden drives.

McKendry ? where's the rivalry gone ? one big happy family .not great for competition. 

Yes all good points.

Might try to think of something fun to do for tomorrow, similar to how you did that fun drivers challenge that I WON 😄 thanks to brilliant drivers J Dunn & Z Butcher yeeha.

[karrotsishere]

Now that fun 6 race meeting comp is done. Will post this. It was published yesterday US time by creditable NY newspaper Times Union as a SPECIAL REPORT at TOP of their news. It's reported by (E Munson), whom is a Data Reporter & used to report on Federal Politics. Read this last nite. Its a long BUT interesting read. Times Union has done 6 months research & MORE is YET to come! I mentioned on another thread anyone else get feeling a volcano, signalling a tsunami warning is brewing in background. This report says changes are being made at Fed Level for racing in US after FBI exposed drug doping. Article also covers how Labs CANNOT test for many types of drugs. Specifically 1 called "EPO" that has many different forms 82 known worldwide & they can only test for 3 types. It reveals more text message convos between TOP gallop trainers. It talks about (how similar to Ireland), testing budget has decreased 20% is stated. It talks about how thousands sometimes millions of dollars on line the harm doping is doing is taking a HUGE toll & in some cases leading to horse DEATH. Full article link below & some snippets from article. Thought some maybe interested in reading e.g. Happy, Rusty, Enteebee, Josias, Richie, Mike, Globe etc.

Titled New York losing battle against doping in horse racings cat & mouse game. 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/horse-racing-doping-new-york-16771265.php?IPID=Times-Union-HP-CP-spotlight

New York’s Equine Drug Testing and Research Laboratory is considered one of the most preeminent in the country, but its director, George Maylin, and his team acknowledge their lab can test for and identify only a portion of the substances found in the thousands of samples taken from New York racehorses every year.

Maylin also said the amount of samples collected from racehorses for drug testing by the Gaming Commission has decreased by more than 20 percent since 2015, before accounting for disruptions to racing during the pandemic. Fewer samples result in less testing — and fewer opportunities to identify illicit drug use.

Scientists at Maylin’s lab spend time each month researching new drugs being released worldwide and looking at scientific research. But so do those looking for an advantage in horse racing — rogue scientists he refers to as "garage chemists."

Change is coming from a new federal authority that may begin regulation of thoroughbred racing this year. But how much progress will be made is still in question as committees and industry representatives negotiate new rules and plans.

But the New York Equine Drug Testing Lab and most similar facilities across the U.S. can only test for three varieties of EPO, while scientific literature cites 82 kinds of EPO worldwide, he said.

“Are they being used? I don’t know,” Maylin said in a recent interview. “But they’ve been synthesized; they’re available. So if you’re testing for EPOs and you’re only doing three and there are another 70-plus out there, who are you kidding?”

Joel Leveson, the Gaming Commission’s former lead investigator and self-described “sheriff” of New York horse racing, said the problem now is “just as bad” as when he was chasing dopers from 1995 to 2014.

“There’s always been drugs in racing,” Leveson said. “There’s always been owners who wanted more.”

Mark Casse, a leading thoroughbred trainer, said he believes some horses' race performances can't be explained by training alone.

With thousands and sometimes millions of dollars on the line in each race, the harm caused by doping goes beyond damage done to the sport's reputation: It's a contributing cause to the deaths of many racehorses every year.

In April 2019, famed race trainer Jorge Navarro fired off a text to a New York veterinarian — someone he had come to depend on as a key contributor to his winning record.

“1,000 pills ASAP,” Navarro texted Seth Fishman, according to a federal indictment that later charged both men with manufacturing, receiving and distributing performance-enhancing drugs

The Times Union spent more than six months examining the horse racing industry in New York and beyond, conducting dozens of interviews with key stakeholders, from trainers, owners, scientists, investigators, track operators and lawmakers to advocates who believe the sport is cruel and should be shut down. The newspaper also sifted through court records and reviewed data sets on testing, injuries, equine deaths, taxpayer subsidies, enforcement and more. 

Coming soon:

– Inside the world of the investigators who chase doping at the tracks

– New York boosts horse racing with tax breaks and subsidies

– The journey of racehorses from track to slaughterhouse

Edited February 7, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Rusty]

So one of the key take-away messages from that news article is the same as what I have been saying since the early 90's; 

Not all illegal performace enhancing drugs are (a) tested for, and (b) detectable when a horse is swabbed. 

Too many naive followers of the sport (usually casual observers, or punters, and not those actually working in the sport), simply believe that because swab testing is not revealing positive results, then all is hunky dory and there is nothing to see here, and you can't dare even remotely suggest otherewise, as "you have no evidence." Well I do. I just elect not to share it in a public forum. 

Performance enhancing drugs that are not detectable with swabbing practices (at the time) have been occuring in NZ since as long as I can remember, and there is no reason to think it has changed now.

 The authorities in this country, and every country I suspect, do the best job they possibly can, within the limitations of their available resources at their disposal. 

"Garage chemists" as the aforementioned article describes them, have been around for decades, and will continue to be, for so long as there is stakemoney in racing, with inadequate testing facilities. 

[Lightning Blue]

4 hours ago, Rusty said:

Performance enhancing drugs that are not detectable with swabbing practices (at the time) have been occuring in NZ since as long as I can remember, and there is no reason to think it has changed now.

 The authorities in this country, and every country I suspect, do the best job they possibly can, within the limitations of their available resources at their disposal. 

"Garage chemists" as the aforementioned article describes them, have been around for decades, and will continue to be, for so long as there is stakemoney in racing, with inadequate testing facilities. 

Mate , you keep grizzling , but you have touched on the three things here in the three paragraphs you wrote,  that are all probably happening .!! *so whats the problem?? 

Are we supposed to STOP ALL racing because of it .?  Do you want every trainer interrogated to flush out their training/treatment regime' ?  

Alford and McGrath have been caught and removed . So what's the problem ? cheats are caught . All good ...........

Let the 'testing' authorities do their job mate instead of disparaging the sport . EVERY sport has drugs administered . Nothing new . *So what's the problem??

Any amount of horse trainers have been caught and DQed Eventually, if they persist with pushing the boundaries. *So whats the problem ??

Human athletes at the elite level all get some sorts of treatment. Some are caught crossing/exceeding the legal parameters and are put out for a suspension term . All those Olympic runners , Sharapova, even Warnie at the cricket, any amount of cyclists lol.. Armstrong at the very top got away with it for years .....   One goddamn doctor evil treated and destroyed nearly the whole Essendon Football club...  

So enjoy the racing while it's still going .!!!  A few of you are just SHOOTING the Product.(harness racing)  just helping destroy it (Like you are doing the Dr Dank ) 

Professional horsemem and women, some the very best in the country of NZ , being assasinated by PeterArchieButIdiot and a few on here from reading that tripe . THERE"S THE PROBLEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Rusty]

Clueless.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Rusty