Alex Park tonight

[Globederby19]

12 hours ago, Gospel Of Judas said:

How terrible! how will you cope!

Wouldn't speak to soon Gospel. Our last few weeks have been fairly average , hence last place. Its a bit of a leveler this comp at times.

[Globederby19]

The NZ Met chief said something very timely in his report. Read it carefully as here is a guy with 26 yrs as a handicapper. 

"Handicapping horses in our most prestigious races could chase our best horses off to Australia where they can race from Mobiles. Conversely,  Australians would be put off coming here knowing they will start behind."

One of the stupidest F---g ideas I have heard of, in light of our lack of depth and explosive times they run now, and goes against all logic.

Im dead against it and if they implement it I sincerely hope it backfires and explodes in their faces. 

By then the damage would have been done and another death knell to NZ harness racing. jmho. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Globederby19

[Happy Sunrise]

4 hours ago, Double R said:

I don't agree that the N.Z.Cup is about finding the best horse in the land.

Interesting take from you. Do you see the 'horse of the year' polling achieving that?

4 hours ago, Double R said:

It is just another race

Like a maiden trot at Palmy? 😂

The NZ Cup is worth 800 000 this year.

4 hours ago, Double R said:

and on lots of occasions the best horse doesn't win.

Without question. 

 

4 hours ago, Double R said:

An example for you from personal experience in the 2017 Cup. Our horse Jack's Legend ran second to Lazarus, approximately 15 metres behind him at the finish, but covered 40 metres more in the running than Lazarus, and ran his last mile faster(1.53) than Lazarus.

But off 20m in a New Zealand Cup is beyond any horse in my opinion. 

When I think about it, I believe HRNZ's motivation is to keep the up and comers in the country but I think they should leave the Auckland and New Zealand Cup alone. You are only enticing the R75 type horses into it.

[Happy Sunrise]

5 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

Im dead against it and if they implement it I sincerely hope it backfires and explodes in their faces. 

If Self Assured, Copy That and Majestic Cruiser don't start.....SPANKEM wins.

It is a master plan from the CEO.

Heaven help me.

[Happy Sunrise]

4 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

In short. Its happening.

If they do it, I hope they do it now. Will help my longshot.

But If HRNZ believe it is a necessary change for the betterment of racing, why do they announce it 14 weeks from the NZ Cup?

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said:

But off 20m in a New Zealand Cup is beyond any horse in my opinion. 

Terror to Love in 2013 Handicapped himself . Thinking it was totally unfair on rivals that after winning the 2011 and 2012 Nz Cups that he come off the front again, he said I'll gallop for 50m behind the field and make my own Handicap.

Still won anyway !! in the true nature of the Champion he is /was. Laz would of won his second Cup in 2017 off a handicap IMO as well. 20m would of been good lol....

 

[Happy Sunrise]

19 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

Terror to Love in 2013 Handicapped himself . Thinking it was totally unfair on rivals that after winning the 2011 and 2012 Nz Cups that he come off the front again, he said I'll gallop for 50m behind the field and make my own Handicap.

Still won anyway !! in the true nature of the Champion he is /was. Laz would of won his second Cup in 2017 off a handicap IMO as well. 20m would of been good lol....

 

Would he have won if was starting on 20m and gave the field another 50?

I just think the NZ Cup is THE race and it is about crowning the elite horse for the year. They can do their PBD in The Race  and drum up betting there but leave the Cup alone. 

Why did they do away with handicaps in the first place?

[Happy Sunrise]

25 minutes ago, Lightning Blue said:

Terror to Love in 2013 Handicapped himself . Thinking it was totally unfair on rivals that after winning the 2011 and 2012 Nz Cups that he come off the front again, he said I'll gallop for 50m behind the field and make my own Handicap.

Still won anyway !! in the true nature of the Champion he is /was. Laz would of won his second Cup in 2017 off a handicap IMO as well. 20m would of been good lol....

 

You should like this LB. It is a good read.

http://www.harnessbred.com/new-zealand-trotting-cup-handicapped-horses-backmarkers/

[Lightning Blue]

39 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

You should like this LB. It is a good read.

http://www.harnessbred.com/new-zealand-trotting-cup-handicapped-horses-backmarkers/

Very nice . Thank you very much . Is a very good article and covers a few good ones ! thats for sure.

I'd be happy with FFA conditions if mobile. (just not accepting there's a reason to have FFA stands that 's all. ) 

47 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

I just think the NZ Cup is THE race and it is about crowning the elite horse for the year.

The Interdominion has good racing with FFA mobile racing, that adapted from the standing starts ok in the early 80's. Poor old Pure Steel had to sit 3 wide all the way off 10m at Harold Park 1980 when 3rd behind Koala King and Locarno. A tough bugger but that was too tough ! possibly the last Standing start Interdominion.

I think the Grand Circuit Champion is your Elite horse of the year. Not just one race the Nz Cup. But do quite like the prestige of that race having said that,  and it leading on to the Nz FFA as well later in week. Also a race that should be held in very high regard and have extra funding to lure the best. and the Interdominion Final slightly bigger again too. 

[karrotsishere]

3 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

If Self Assured, Copy That and Majestic Cruiser don't start.....SPANKEM wins.

It is a master plan from the CEO.

Heaven help me.

Dont forget South Coast Arden too. I dont think a CEO should be an owner. Nor have friends in industry. Can be friendly to a degree, but needs to be strictly business, that way no perceived conflict of interest.

Dont think the changes are coming from him, which I had initially also thought were.

Heres an e.g why. At this year annual Northern Trainer Drivers meeting. Feedback was given, here are just 3 of  things were discussed & taken back to board by C Mcdonald (whom think is doing a good job) & implemented. 

C MacDonald from HRNZ addressed the meeting & outlined some proposals for the future. They included HANDICAPS – that these should be reintroduced for big races, trotters & pacers e.g. NZ Cup, Rowe Cup, to try and even up the wagering and encourage more betting, which the meeting supported. There had been a mindset that the best horse should always win, but it had become apparent that this was stifling betting to some degree if they were always in a free for all situation

STAKE LEVELS – There was discussion on funding & suggestions that Auckland & Cambridge required more help. It was proposed that all ATC Fridays be $15k and Premiers $20k. Cambridge should also be $15k on a Friday. There was also discussion surrounding dates & race times. It was felt that Clubs had lost a lot of control with Tabcorp dictating race times, which were not always to their benefit. This would relate back to turnover, & create a Catch 22 situation regarding getting more dates. The stake levels proposal was to be taken back to HRNZ board.

DRIVING FEES – meeting discussed this issue & was unanimous that an increase is required immediately. R Lawson advised that there should have been an increase some time ago, & the level was supposed to be reviewed on an annual basis. The cost of living as regards travel, petrol etc. has gotten well ahead of what is needed & an increase is required. J Abernethy was to contact P Cook & attempt to get other branch feedback for a letter to go to the HRNZ July Board meeting.

Jay thanked C MacDonald for her attendance.

 

3 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

If they do it, I hope they do it now. Will help my longshot.

But If HRNZ believe it is a necessary change for the betterment of racing, why do they announce it 14 weeks from the NZ Cup?

Know what you mean. Nominations havent closed yet right. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Purple Parsnip]

4 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Heaven help me.

The Manly Seven believe ....................

[Happy Sunrise]

The markets for some of the affected races have been open for a long time. Is it inappropriate to change the conditions surrounding the race due to this?

I am sure the rules of the TAB have it covered to save their blushes but if someone had put 10 000 on Self Assured thinking it could draw 5 but instead it is going to the 20m mark I would not be too happy.

Is this important?

[Happy Sunrise]

19 minutes ago, Purple Parsnip said:

The Manly Seven believe ....................

Don't think we will be seeing any rainbow helmets soon.

[karrotsishere]

1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The markets for some of the affected races have been open for a long time. Is it inappropriate to change the conditions surrounding the race due to this?

I am sure the rules of the TAB have it covered to save their blushes but if someone had put 10 000 on Self Assured thinking it could draw 5 but instead it is going to the 20m mark I would not be too happy.

Is this important?

Great point yes it is inappropriate I mean & is it important yes.

The more Iv been researching & reading the more I feel they are in panick mode. Understand why & its not those currently in charge as its what they are taking on. Think its great someone like C McDonald is pushing for holds bar forceful change. Wasnt long ago I posted the number of weanlings on here. Then a few days later HRNZ posted some alternative article about how foal numbers were up. Felt that weird as research Id done & shared here was in contrary.

Last week Chairman shared the findings that I had found. So great being more transparent! Re transparant heres is a bit from same Northern trainers drivers annual meeting relates to this thread. The in bold for me is warning bells. 

The meeting discussed the financial situation of the ATC as regards its debt levels & loan structures, and that the Branch was not actually totally aware of the actual situation. The Branch required an update & firm plans of what Auckland intended to do. Some more transparency from Auckland would be appreciated. Rising interest rates and the economy in general were also of concern as regards any debt levels held by the club.

Edited July 27, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Happy Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Purple Parsnip said:

The Manly Seven believe ....................

What happens in Twiggers, stays in Twiggers?

[Field Commander]

3 hours ago, Purple Parsnip said:

The Manly Seven believe ....................

Absolute beast, how did he go in the States?

[karrotsishere]

Voting has closed. The vote for change are the winners by a neck 5 to 4.

This reeks of entitlement & greed. 1st world problems. 3 of these are allegelly threatening to pull out if Handicap is put in place this Cup. 2 publically saying for sure. ALL 3 are Australians. Thought would throw in Spankem as he too would get a Handicap as Miracle Mile winner. But so far his NZ connections are not throwing a tantrum. I say fine dont race in NZ Cup to those 3 Aussie owned & potentially take more NZ money back to Australia with you. Leave it for the Kiwis to win!

Copy That Lifetime earnings NZD964,297 includes 24 wins & a NZ Cup (Owner Australian couple Butterworths).

Self Assured Lifetime earnings NZD1,773,581 includes 26 wins including NZ Cup (Owner Australian J Feiss).

Majestic Crusier Lifetime earnings AUD758,524 = NZD846,831, includes 23 wins including Blakes a Fake (Owner Australian couple Glynns)

Spankem NZD1,816,854 including 21 wins including Miracle Mile (NZ owned). 

Perhaps if there were Handicaps as proposed, some Kiwi exports that recently raced in Aussie Albion Park carnival would of stayed here eg  Spirit of St Lou, Star Galleria, LL Cool, Mach Shard, AGs White Socks, Firefox, Triple 8, Cast No Shadow, Alta Orlando, Like A Wild Fire, The Honey Queen the list goes on.

Be nice to see Majestic Man with a running chance at the next Dominon too, to see him potentially win a NZ G1!

Edited July 27, 2022 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

Last post on this Cup Handicap from me then moving on. Have done up a new list excluding the 3 above. Its not quite as stong but still has 10 runners from 15 of 2021 Cup in with 6 nice new comers. Plus others that could fight for a start.*started Cup 2021*

1. Akuta 

2. Spirit Of St Louie

3. Pembrooke Playboy

4. Spankem

5. Krug

6. Hot and Trecherous

7. Kango *

8. South Coast Arden *

9. Cranbourne * 

10. Classie Brigade *

11. Laver *

12. Bad to The Bone *

13. Henry Hubert *

14. Steel The Show *

15. Terry *

E1 Dancetime *

AGs White Socks, BD Joe, Alta Wiseguy, One Change, Di Caprio, Christianshavtime, Corravelly Star, Old Town Road, Republican Party, Franco Indie, Bollinger, True Fantasy, Sand Wave, Darling Me, Franco Mac.

Reference re Spankem Miracle Mile winner would cope a handicap as above post " 

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/nz-met-chiefs-urge-hrnz-to-put-a-hold-on-handicap-decree-for-prestige-races/

Strangely, wins in sprints like the Miracle Mile and Cambridge’s slot race ‘The Race’ would see a horse cop a 10 metre handicap, but not the New Zealand Free-for-all.

[Honest john]

I hear the small clubs are trying to get rid of the board. 

 

Hj

[karrotsishere]

4 minutes ago, Honest john said:

I hear the small clubs are trying to get rid of the board. 

Oh hi HJ. Welcome back. 

Yea I read somewhere there was friction about the board not long ago that some were not happy & protesting it. No further info than that & its not rock solid info but interesting you hear the same thing. 

[Honest john]

20 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Oh hi HJ. Welcome back. 

Yea I read somewhere there was friction about the board not long ago that some were not happy & protesting it. No further info than that & its not rock solid info but interesting you hear the same thing. 

 

Yeah had trouble changing from old I pad to New one.  Hope to be here more.  

 

Hj

[karrotsishere]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:41 PM, Honest john said:

I hear the small clubs are trying to get rid of the board. 

Hj

Re the board & small clubs HJ, saw this article, 2 people only were put forward by the small clubs. C Bray (Banks Peninsula) & D Gale (Kaipati). The Chairman seeks re-election. C Hair Sundees Son owner is not seeking re-nom. (So 2 spots up for grabs - 3 people going for).

The article is mainly about C Bray. Quite like what he has to say. Anyone know when the new 2 voted in would start? Wonder if its in time to vote for Handicap proposal ...?

To be fair they should put out an article on what D Gale has to say too. (Good informative article) by B Reid.

https://harnesslink.com/new-zealand/bray-seeking-election-to-hrnz-board-of-directors/

Edited August 2, 2022 by karrotsishere

[karrotsishere]

23 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

& D Gale (Kaipati).

Remember non Handicap drama re D Gale & M House in a Country Cup race. Where 1 of D Gales horses wasnt handicapped on stand. It was a mobile & distance was changed shorter. And M House called it out. It was Kaipati Club.

Know Lightening you feel differently but another reason why I dont think people with potential conflict of interest, should be in influencial positions. What way would Sundees Son owner vote ... re Handicap changes big races? Mind u his horse is so good. Most likely wouldnt be worried about the rest excluding 1 or 2 off 10 metres. But the principal is my point. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Honest john]

2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Re the board & small clubs HJ, saw this article, 2 people only were put forward by the small clubs. C Bray (Banks Peninsula) & D Gale (Kaipati). The Chairman seeks re-election. C Hair Sundees Son owner is not seeking re-nom. (So 2 spots up for grabs - 3 people going for).

The article is mainly about C Bray. Quite like what he has to say. Anyone know when the new 2 voted in would start? Wonder if its in time to vote for Handicap proposal ...?

To be fair they should put out an article on what D Gale has to say too. (Good informative article) by B Reid.

https://harnesslink.com/new-zealand/bray-seeking-election-to-hrnz-board-of-directors/

South island clubs are the ones I'm told are sick of being ignored.  We shall see what works out? 

 

Hj

[Lightning Blue]

On 7/28/2022 at 12:09 PM, karrotsishere said:

Strangely, wins in sprints like the Miracle Mile and Cambridge’s slot race ‘The Race’ would see a horse cop a 10 metre handicap, but not the New Zealand Free-for-all.

The handicap must be because of Prize Money earned in that case . Those 2 races in particular are worth a large amount to the winner. I think the NZ FFA should be in that catergory too, and worth a stack more money. 

I love FFA's . The Nz Cup itself has been criticised relentlessly many times because of the poor starts from the stand. Easily fixed !!!  just run it 3200m mobile start if continuing as a FFA.  If HRNZ want to continue 'standing' the Start , might as well make Handicaps to even it up a bit (and for the fine tradition) And also because it spreads the runners out that little bit more at the start to avert Disaster too. just my opinion.....