Alex Park tonight

[karrotsishere]

1 minute ago, Double R said:

Hi Karrots,

I have just written to Catherine McDonald to seek clarification for us.

Cheers.

Ok.

In a clause it says thay a vet cert maybe provided & in that case stripes can reduce time. So that could be the reason. Altho this horse did start at workouts. So if vet cert was provided surely next day after scratching it wouldnt be lining up at workouts. But its possible. It doesnt say vet cert provided in Stripes report.

[Double R]

1 minute ago, karrotsishere said:

Ok.

In a clause it says thay a vet cert maybe provided & in that case stripes can reduce time. So that could be the reason. Altho this horse did start at workouts. So if vet cert was provided surely next day after scratching it wouldnt be lining up at workouts. But its possible. It doesnt say vet cert provided in Stripes report.

It will be interesting to see what response we get back.

[karrotsishere]

1 minute ago, Double R said:

It will be interesting to see what response we get back.

Yes be interesting. I dont think its fair if they are forced to scratch this week. As it has only been given 5 days & if its the Stripes who have gotten it wrong, thats too bad, their mistake & its already in public domain clearly written 5 days. Dont punish the horse or connections.

Besides low numbers in North. Horses lining up are needed.

Maybe the rules have changed. Will await with interest. 

[Double R]

8 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Yes be interesting. I dont think its fair if they are forced to scratch this week. As it has only been given 5 days & if its the Stripes who have gotten it wrong, thats too bad, their mistake & its already in public domain clearly written 5 days. Dont punish the horse or connections.

Besides low numbers in North. Horses lining up are needed.

Maybe the rules have changed. Will await with interest. 

Agree Karrots.

As I mentioned my earlier post, the rules were updated on the 24th of May 2022.

[Purple Parsnip]

39 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

I find it slightly comical.

 

[karrotsishere]

4 hours ago, Double R said:

Agree Karrots.

As I mentioned my earlier post, the rules were updated on the 24th of May 2022.

Yes saw that, just thought maybe possible due to low North numbers, they could of since changed rule to only have a 5 day stand down for all time for Northern horses.

For those curious as its all very transparent & public made info. So no-one is trying to hide anything. 

Go to 

Fri 15 July Alex P results look under scratchings - 5 days penalty. 

Then go to Sat 16 July Camb workout results.

Then go to Thurs 21 July Camb results, look under scratchings - 5 days penalty.

Then go to Alex P fields Fri 29th July. 

Then you can spot the horsey Im talking about 😂

Edited July 26, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Purple Parsnip]

23 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Yes saw that, just thought maybe possible due to low North numbers, they could of since changed rule to only have a 5 day stand down for all time for Northern horses.

For those curious as its all very transparent & public made info. So no-one is trying to hide anything. 

Go to 

Fri 15 July Alex P results look under scratchings - 5 days penalty. 

Then go to Sat 16 July Camb workout results.

Then go to Thurs 21 July Camb results, look under scratchings - 5 days penalty.

Then go to Alex P fields Fri 29th July. 

Then you can spot the horsey Im talking about 😂

harder to solve than sudoku

[karrotsishere]

23 minutes ago, Purple Parsnip said:

harder to solve than sudoku

Haha, knew you would know which horsey it was. Some others not tho. 

Changing subject what are your thoughts on NZ Cup possibly changing to put previous winners back on 10m etc? 

Think its not a bad idea. Based on weight in gallops & it used to be that way. Also helps to share the winnings around. Not that we can compare it to humans (but notice some have, so Ill therefore do a human comparison too lol. Take Miss NZ, can only win once, then becomes non eligble. Can enter as many times as one likes tho. Take the glory once. Have your moment to shine then move on for the others chance at Gold. 

Feel that way for NZ Cup too & Dominon. But at least a winner can re-enter just back on 10m IF the change goes ahead which it looks like it is. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by karrotsishere

[Purple Parsnip]

2 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Changing subject what are your thoughts on NZ Cup possibly changing to put previous winners back on 10m etc?

I would like to have a dollar each way

Some of the races I looked most forward to were handicaps. Classic example was New Brighton TC's DB Superstars for 4yo's run in September. Heats one week, Final the following.

Dillon Dean, Inky Lord, Laser Lad, Mels Boy, Mighty Me all Derby winners (NZ or GN) the previous season found the 20m handicap too much.

Made for great racing. $70 winners, $800 Quinellas.

But I think the absolute feature races in both islands should not have horses racing off handicaps.

[karrotsishere]

18 minutes ago, Purple Parsnip said:

I would like to have a dollar each way

Some of the races I looked most forward to were handicaps. Classic example was New Brighton TC's DB Superstars for 4yo's run in September. Heats one week, Final the following.

Dillon Dean, Inky Lord, Laser Lad, Mels Boy, Mighty Me all Derby winners (NZ or GN) the previous season found the 20m handicap too much.

Made for great racing. $70 winners, $800 Quinellas.

But I think the absolute feature races in both islands should not have horses racing off handicaps.

Fair enough. 

Here is the latest on it. You may have seen already but for those who havent. Im surprised that Self Assured would be off 20m, while Copy That be off only 10m. And Majestic Cruiser would be off 10m. I was thinking more if you won it then you go back 10m. Must be something along lines of if you have won a Grand Circuit race back 10m for every win ... or similar. And by sound of article HRNZ are forcing Addington to do it.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/majestic-cruiser-in-doubt-for-nz-cup-after-controversial-demand-to-change-conditions-of-the-race-20220726

[karrotsishere]

Here's another article. HRNZ have made a list of races, which puts those winners 10m handicap, max 20m. HRNZ board all voted unaimously on change. 5 races to be changed to try improve punter turnover.

Agree with Dunn & Mckinnon on it. Handicaps should have a cap of 10m max. 20m is too much.

Any other votes? Its a democracy. So far 2 votes for change (Lightening & myself), 2 votes against change (Mike & Parsnip). All votes welcome. 

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/hrnz-bombshell-top-five-standing-start-races-to-become-handicaps-to-attract-more-betting/

[Double R]

3 minutes ago, karrotsishere said:

Here's another article. HRNZ have made a list of races, which puts those winners 10m handicap, max 20m. HRNZ board all voted unaimously on change. 5 races to be changed to try improve punter turnover.

Agree with Dunn & Mckinnon on it. Handicaps should have a cap of 10m max. 20m is too much.

Any other votes? Its a democracy. So far 2 votes for change (Lightening & myself), 2 votes against change (Mike & Parsnip). All votes welcome. 

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/hrnz-bombshell-top-five-standing-start-races-to-become-handicaps-to-attract-more-betting/

I will vote for change please.

Cheers.

Robert.

[Globederby19]

Personally we don't have the depth. I would get rid of (in fact I would kick it out the park)all Standing starts and solve the problem, they are an outdated institution. Higher rated horses could start from the second line. Every horse gets its chance from a mobile providing we aren't running on saucer tracks. End of story.

[karrotsishere]

Ok latest voting update. Then Im signing off for nite. 

3 votes a piece. 

For change Lightening, Karrots, DR

Against change Parsnip, Mike, Globe

Its neck & neck.

Gospel not sure which you are yet, for or against?

Tomorrow Ill add your vote & anyone elses 

Edited July 26, 2022 by karrotsishere

[pete]

I'll vote for the change.

[Happy Sunrise]

The NZ Cup is purely about about finding the best horse in the land. The ultimate race. If that horse happens to be a previous winner of the race so be it. I don't see why they should be punished for being the best.

1. You can't win off 20m. The times they go now show that. The trail horse is capable of going 3.58(?) What do you have to do off 20m and loop the field at the same time?

2. The second line is bad enough, 10m is even worse and certainly not like the second line. The second line gives you a touch of hope setting midfield. 10m you see a wall.

3. I am not a super fan of the All Stars winning all the time but they usually have the best horse so they win. That is fair.

4. Do you really want to see an inferior horse win because they got the best run and others were handicapped out of it with impossible runs.

5. Punters will always bet on the NZ Cup.

6. The lead up races are handicapped I think. That gives the slightly second tier horses their chance to pick up a decent cheque.

7. More conflict of interests with Dunn being part of ATC and training Sundees. What will mark will Spankem be off? 

8. If you want to even it up, have a PBD standing start. Mind you, if you start from 5-10 on the front line you have the best draw because starts are mess these days.

This also shows the poor organisation of harness racing. HRNZ give a directive and Addington can oppose it? Surely, they don't have a choice. God, if clubs can oppose HRNZ rulings then bring back Waimate and Forbury!!

[Happy Sunrise]

With the talk of Copy That and Self Assured buggering off to OZ instead of the Cup, plus repelling the Aussies. What is the point?

TAB have suspended the book because of this. 

Hope they go. My bets will be looking far better if they do.

[Happy Sunrise]

The HRNZ board has unanimously voted that the New Zealand Trotting Cup, Auckland Trotting Cup, Dominion Trot, Rowe Cup and Invercargill Cup will no longer be free-for-alls.

The Invercargill Cup? 

Has it been boosted up a lot in stakes etc or were they drunk when they did this?

[Globederby19]

44 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

ve the best draw because starts are mess these days.

Another reason to get rid of standing starts. Lets face it ,in the Halcyon days of NZ harness the tracks were packed with punters. Why, because any other forms of entertainment were limited. Now with a complete hodgepodge of betting avenues outside of Harness , you would think they need to keep a punters interest up .

Watching your money go up in smoke at the start of a race is a complete turnoff, and one reason (way back in 1972) I fell in love with Harold Park and also missed Hutt Park. I could never understand the sanity behind standing starts. How many great races would have had a different outcome had they been Mobile starts.

 

[Purple Parsnip]

2 hours ago, karrotsishere said:

Its neck & neck.

stride for stride

[Purple Parsnip]

57 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The HRNZ board has unanimously voted that the New Zealand Trotting Cup, Auckland Trotting Cup, Dominion Trot, Rowe Cup and Invercargill Cup will no longer be free-for-alls.

The Invercargill Cup? 

Has it been boosted up a lot in stakes etc or were they drunk when they did this?

its pretty hard case

[Lightning Blue]

1 hour ago, Gospel Of Judas said:

Change.

Wahoo !.. the super winter comp should be handicap too?. having drawn against the Gospel Wombat this week . Lifetime comp earnings would see Gospel a good 50m behind seems fair to LB  ( a 2 race start maybe? lol.....)

Anyhow Globe is right, send them all out of the mobile these days. The Interdominon Championships between Oz and Nz adapted fine near 40 years ago now, and is still a great series. 

[Lightning Blue]

8 minutes ago, Gospel Of Judas said:

How terrible! how will you cope!

No Cope, No Hope without Dope....

[Double R]

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The NZ Cup is purely about about finding the best horse in the land. The ultimate race. If that horse happens to be a previous winner of the race so be it. I don't see why they should be punished for being the best.

1. You can't win off 20m. The times they go now show that. The trail horse is capable of going 3.58(?) What do you have to do off 20m and loop the field at the same time?

2. The second line is bad enough, 10m is even worse and certainly not like the second line. The second line gives you a touch of hope setting midfield. 10m you see a wall.

3. I am not a super fan of the All Stars winning all the time but they usually have the best horse so they win. That is fair.

4. Do you really want to see an inferior horse win because they got the best run and others were handicapped out of it with impossible runs.

5. Punters will always bet on the NZ Cup.

6. The lead up races are handicapped I think. That gives the slightly second tier horses their chance to pick up a decent cheque.

7. More conflict of interests with Dunn being part of ATC and training Sundees. What will mark will Spankem be off? 

8. If you want to even it up, have a PBD standing start. Mind you, if you start from 5-10 on the front line you have the best draw because starts are mess these days.

This also shows the poor organisation of harness racing. HRNZ give a directive and Addington can oppose it? Surely, they don't have a choice. God, if clubs can oppose HRNZ rulings then bring back Waimate and Forbury!!

Hi Happy.

I don't agree that the N.Z.Cup is about finding the best horse in the land. It is just another race, and the unknown variables that are part of our great sport, and can happen in any race, and on lots of occasions the best horse doesn't win. Many times the horse that runs the best race doesn't win, and that is just part and parcel of racing. An example for you from personal experience in the 2017 Cup. Our horse Jack's Legend ran second to Lazarus, approximately 15 metres behind him at the finish, but covered 40 metres more in the running than Lazarus, and ran his last mile faster(1.53) than Lazarus.

Cheers.

Robert.

[karrotsishere]

Heres the latest update.

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/nz-met-chiefs-urge-hrnz-to-put-a-hold-on-handicap-decree-for-prestige-races/

In short. Its happening. Its just a matter od when, so will it be Nov, or next year. Addington are urging HRNZ lead by C Mcdonald to wait til next year before changing. Some of the races that the article alleges will be part of handicap for it are The Race, Miracle Mile. But not the FFA (all bit weird I find). HRNZ do have the power now to force this due to a rule change last year. 

Its neck & neck stride for stride as the 2 power down the backstraight 800 metres left to go. Who will take out the Raceplace vote. Voting still open. Last day today

Be good to get say 15 votes. 

5 for change Karrots, DR, Pete, Gospel, Lightening

4 against change Happy, Parsnip, Mike, Globe

Lightening, Globe agree re stands to get rid of them. This vote is for handicaps tho. Can do another vote after re get rid of stands. Lightneing is fiercely for change btw, he is correct when he says a mobile can still be a handicap, re Preferential Draw. (Globe did say higher rated horses can start 2nd row, so maybe he is for Handicap after all? But he did say we dont have the deapth for it re handicaping. So not sure? Will keep the same voting for now).

They could always handicap to put previous winners on a 3rd line mobile behind 2nd line horses & unruly ouside them or something similar. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by karrotsishere