brown fox Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/exclusive-the-big-changes-being-proposed-to-new-zealands-tab/Q2AMXUUPKZFTLCJDNAWCXDICYM/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngakonui grass Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) Fortune tellers at it again................hundreds of millions of dollars Edited March 21, 2023 by ngakonui grass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Mismanagement comes with a price .. you end up with nothing to sell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 You guys have spent too much time reading other sites lol Wait and see what the deal is when it is disclosed. It appears from all 3 competing bodies, to be almost a full takeover, so that would see the 220 million plus of costs that TAB NZ have cut hugely. So it just depends on what the return is each year to NZ racing and sporting. NG, it is hundreds of millions of dollars over the next 20 years, journalistic license on the part of Guerin It was announced back in Oct last year that all this was underway, so to have reached the stage they have in less than 6 months is not too bad, considering it was first mooted by Messara 4.5 years ago, but the turkeys were not for voting for an early Xmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 And if they or the Minister decide none of the proposals are acceptable, at least they can say they've gone through the motions and Xmas will still be some way off for the turkeys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Then they have a small problem of finding some money to balance the books, that, or substantially reduce the payout to clubs in 23/24, which could cause an avalanche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I'd say that is inevitable. Even if a deal is made, any financial benefit will surely be further off than next season or later this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Let's wait and see what the deal is, could be a number of options to cover the likely time of implementation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Here is the simplistic view TAB NZ has 3 billion turnover, with net income at 350 mil It costs 220 mil to return 140 mil to the codes, so more than what they earn. This has always been a bone of contention for the industry. Any deal will have to return quite a bit more to the codes, or no point. To do this, turnover has to be increased or the whole shebang has to be run with lower costs. It is likely an Aus operator can increase turnover, as they are able to provide more exposure for NZ racing, doing all this within their existing framework, for some increase in costs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 It doesn't change that NZ Racing will still not be earning the money in the main. And it will be feeding off the tit of sports betting, pokies and off-shore racing. A commercial operator will want to make a return on their investment. Why would NZ racing turnover increase. If a current operator increases turnover on NZ racing, they get the majority of the returns already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Yes they would They would view it, that with their existing infrastructure they could run a 3 billion dollar turnover/net 350 mil business for a lot less than TAB NZ, provide a higher return to the clubs and still pocket a healthy return The idea I guess longer term, is that stakes are able to increase in NZ, attracting better fields and more wagering turnover, which starts to make it all sustainable. A long way to go, as things have got so far behind in NZ, thanks to the tail wagging the dog As much as I hate to say it, but NZ racing would eventually become like a state of Aus, and that isn't bad. We had our chance, even when Messara said this was the thing to do, the Racing Board knew better A lot of the infrastructure is here, in terms of clubs, racecourses, skilled horse people and a very good breeding industry, with results that stand scrutiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Good point that Mick Guerin made in Herald this morning. If the new operator has a total monopoly in NZ, will they be applying the restrictions that all the overseas bookies enforce when a punter starts winning too much. He makes the good point that if geoblocking is instituted then some punters will have nowhere to go if they're resticted by the new operator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Michael Guerin: Now is the time for TAB bosses to act By Michael Guerin 21 Mar, 2023 04:40 PM3 mins to read SaveShare In the TAB's terms and conditions, it details how it can void and refund bets should a technical malfunction occur on its website. Photo / File OPINION: Now is the time for TAB bosses and Racing Minister Kieran McAnulty to protect New Zealand racing’s most important resource: the punters. The TAB has completed the hard work of securing proposals from three huge overseas betting agencies which, if accepted, will reduce costs and increase returns to the racing industry and sport. If the numbers add up they will need McAnulty’s approval to seal the deal which will see much of the day-to-day running of the TAB’s operations handed over to the winning company. But before McAnulty signs off it is crucial he demands safeguards for New Zealand punters, the group who provides all the money but has no official advocate. While the potential geo-blocking of New Zealand punters, which would leave them with the TAB as their only racing and sports betting option, is likely a year away it could leave many New Zealand punters vulnerable. Most corporate bookmakers worldwide will restrict or block punters they deem to be too smart, even though some still lose. Many are restricted for simply securing better fixed-odds prices than what a horse starts at. These restrictions are the bane of punters worldwide and, while the New Zealand TAB has its faults and weaknesses, one of the most important policies it has implemented is Punters Promise. That means the TAB will, under almost all circumstances, take a win bet from a punter to win a $2000 profit on any horse or dog race. It is a fair limit and covers the overwhelming majority of punters and a version of that must be written into any new contract before McAnulty signs off on the deal. If it is not then New Zealand punters could face the situation where they can’t bet overseas but also can’t bet to win a reasonable, or even any amount, with the TAB because the new agencies pulling the strings have restricted them. With tote pools falling to the point that fixed odds are the main form of betting, the heavy restriction would mean regular punters would be driven from the game or forced to set up clandestine overseas accounts. And don’t think that only happens to professional or regular winning punters, there are countless stories of large overseas betting firms restricting punters after just a few wins. Imagine if you backed three winners, were restricted by the TAB’s new partners but had no other way to bet? That is not far-fetched, it happens. If the TAB and the racing industry seek a monopoly, they and their new strategic partners must guarantee New Zealand punters are given a fair go. If they are not willing to pay that price then the Racing Minister should tell them no deal. Because if he doesn’t protect New Zealand punters who else will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Also the No Deductions initiative, which is due to end at the end of March, but probably will be extended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Whoever buys it would apply the same geo blocking rules as what they already have in Aus, of which I am unsure about what they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, Hesi said: Whoever buys it would apply the same geo blocking rules as what they already have in Aus, of which I am unsure about what they are Geoblocking is all very well if there are available competitors. If you're going to geoblock and hand a monopoly to an overseas bookie who is quite happy to restrict successful punters then you have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 20 hours ago, mardigras said: It doesn't change that NZ Racing will still not be earning the money in the main. And it will be feeding off the tit of sports betting, pokies and off-shore racing. A commercial operator will want to make a return on their investment. Why would NZ racing turnover increase. If a current operator increases turnover on NZ racing, they get the majority of the returns already. Surely the 'product' would have to improve markedly for turnover to increase? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Chicken and egg Stakes would have to go up markedly for the product to improve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Freda said: Surely the 'product' would have to improve markedly for turnover to increase? I agree 4 minutes ago, Hesi said: Chicken and egg Stakes would have to go up markedly for the product to improve I don't think stakes is what makes the product improve. It's the whole package of which stakes is the smallest part imo. Tracks, jockeys, the running of racing itself. Confidence for punters in what they are betting on. Confidence in the information they are getting. Confidence that the jockey has half a clue. And so on. My minimal betting there has nothing to do with the stakes. I bet on UK racing where stakes are generally low if not even lower than NZ. But I trust in the way racing is run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/22/2023 at 9:42 AM, pete said: Good point that Mick Guerin made in Herald this morning. If the new operator has a total monopoly in NZ, will they be applying the restrictions that all the overseas bookies enforce when a punter starts winning too much. He makes the good point that if geoblocking is instituted then some punters will have nowhere to go if they're resticted by the new operator. What is a total monopoly? There is Trackside TV, on courses operations, agencies to consider. I can't see NZ giving away Trackside to overseas. With new technology (well over the last 20 years) any club can quickly set up and run their own betting. They can't setup and run all betting i.e. all other codes, sports etc. There has to be a breakup so if an overseas agency comes in they do only online gambling. Everything else stays with NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.