An exercise in futlity

[Hesi]

He never has and never will concede anything

He has never acknowledged the talent that many of you guys have, bordering on genius in some cases

Rude and disrespectful manner

Clearly a sick pervert

Clearly delusional about saving the racing world

So what is the fascination with banging your head against a brick wall, I'm sure there is a word there that describes it, I just can't find it at the moment

 

 

[London Trader]

Why does Thomas email the stipes under false names all the time?

[mardigras]

The issue for me is that the topic of Black Type is actually an interesting one. But all he wants to do is disagree with whatever my view is.

I've not come across too many people that are well versed in racing and the idea behind black type, that would consider handicap racing as having a valid relationship with it. Handicaps by design are to equalise chance and are not by design - aimed to have the best horse win.

[pete]

Apparently we're a 'childish picking competition site'.

And we are now hiding Barry's tips because he's losing so much.

Laughable.

Unfortunately engaging narcissistic psychos such as T is a waste of time. It just feeds his pathetic little ego.

[pete]

Also he really lost the argument when he supposed what would have happened if Melody Belle was retired after her Karaka win.

You could say that about any horse that failed to reach its potential for whatever reason.

Totally spurious argument.

[Hesi]

4 hours ago, mardigras said:

The issue for me is that the topic of Black Type is actually an interesting one. But all he wants to do is disagree with whatever my view is.

I've not come across too many people that are well versed in racing and the idea behind black type, that would consider handicap racing as having a valid relationship with it. Handicaps by design are to equalise chance and are not by design - aimed to have the best horse win.

Still hard to comprehend why you lower yourself, or be bothered Mardi.

As I understand it, you have genius level intelligence, which I can believe, based on the line of logic I regularly see coming from you.

Whereas you are dealing with a protagonist in buffoonery, whose only purpose is to troll.

I thought this definition on Wikipedia pretty much summed it up

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,^[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses^[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,^[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

 

[mardigras]

I often wonder why I bother too. I go through phases - varying degrees of frustration for want of a better word. Until I lose restraint.

[Sandpiper]

40 minutes ago, Hesi said:

for the troll's amusement

 

This is a non obvious part that certainly escaped me for quite a while. I had a work contact who in a quieter moment admitted to being a troll and you could see his eyes light up thinking about how he gets a rise from people. Good worker, nice guy, just with this weird antisocial disorder / addiction thing going on the side. 

 

 

 

[curious]

1 hour ago, pete said:

And we are now hiding Barry's tips because he's losing so much.

Laughable.

Haha ... hilarious when  his posted selections are up gizillions!

[Hesi]

The wider issue for me and I guess u too Pete, is the bad reputation chat forums get with this inane drivel that is delivered in such a disrespectful and unsavoury manner

I have tried to get a number of well known racing identities including people at NZTR and NZRB to join to no avail, I presume because of the bad name chat forums have.  I guess RC have a lot to answer  for there.

When I was privy to info at BOAY, it was apparent that many in the industry treated these forums as having too bad a reputation for them to have anything to do with

I have tried to explain we run a clean and respectful site, but mud sticks

I actually thought it important  that these forums have more integrity and were a means of meaningful  exchange  within Racing, in the absence of very little independent  journalism

[Freda]

Agree to that.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

The wider issue for me and I guess u too Pete, is the bad reputation chat forums get with this inane drivel that is delivered in such a disrespectful and unsavoury manner

I have tried to get a number of well known racing identities including people at NZTR and NZRB to join to no avail, I presume because of the bad name chat forums have.  I guess RC have a lot to answer  for there.

When I was privy to info at BOAY, it was apparent that many in the industry treated these forums as having too bad a reputation for them to have anything to do with

I have tried to explain we run a clean and respectful site, but mud sticks

I actually thought it important  that these forums have more integrity and were a means of meaningful  exchange  within Racing, in the absence of very little independent  journalism

Have you asked or thought about asking those people that if there were a social media racing site that they would want to participate in, what key features/critical elements would it have? Their answer to that might suit a lot of us. On the other hand, there is a fine line between what some might consider inane, disrespectful and unsavoury and what is firmly delivered critical comment and I think from my experience, a number of the people you may be referring to don't want to or can't hear and respond to that which is possibly why racing is in the position that it currently finds itself.

Edited January 14, 2020 by curious

[Maximus]

..and now ...and not for the first time ...several ellipses AND an OPINION FROM MAXIMUS

You guys are once again playing right into the trolls hand(s) by constantly mentioning him, putting him down, comparing yourselves to him etc etc etc ...when all you have to do is IGNORE HIM.

How many more times does the infinitely wise (and modest) Mustelid have to say this?

LET IT GO ! 

[Freda]

25 minutes ago, curious said:

Have you asked or thought about asking those people that if there were a social media racing site that they would want to participate in, what key features/critical elements would it have? Their answer to that might suit a lot of us. On the other hand, there is a fine line between what some might consider inane, disrespectful and unsavoury and what is firmly delivered critical comment and I think from my experience, a number of the people you may be referring to don't want to or can't hear and respond to that which is possibly why racing is in the position that it currently finds itself.

Yep.   That's a fair point.

In the early days of Racecafe, when managed by Ange and Dave ( before I knew of its existence)  I believe they had a Q & A weekly or fortnightly with someone from NZTR... but that all must have gone tits up when the site changed hands.

[curious]

My ageing memory can't actually quite remember about the Q&A but I also do remember paying some sort of moderate subscription at that time. The problem with the Q&A thing is that if you can't ask (or get answers to) follow-up questions, the powers that be often don't or won't answer the questions directly and if they do, don't or won't provide any sound evidence or justification for their answers. Bit like the various roadshows. Mostly only good for a free beer and a sausage roll and you don't even get those on social media sites.

Edited January 14, 2020 by curious

[Hesi]

34 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yep.   That's a fair point.

In the early days of Racecafe, when managed by Ange and Dave ( before I knew of its existence)  I believe they had a Q & A weekly or fortnightly with someone from NZTR... but that all must have gone tits up when the site changed hands.

I had established an email dialogue with Mary Burgess NZTR pre-Xmas and had hoped in some pre-Xmas stupor that a Q&A section could be established,  especially  with all the change on the horizon

Also had exchanged emails with Michael Guerin and asked him to contribute  but reading between  the lines, chat forums are too volatile and not appropriate, even though I had given assurances that while there may be robust debate it would be respectful 

Like your idea Curious

People have trouble  understanding that people like the above  have no obligation to participate and will  scarper unless treated  in a way that I would call accepted business etiquette 

If you want to get them to listen then you must conduct yourself in a manner that wins them over, not telling them  what a pack of c..ts they are and how badly they have done......I thought that was common sense

[Hesi]

51 minutes ago, Maximus said:

..and now ...and not for the first time ...several ellipses AND an OPINION FROM MAXIMUS

You guys are once again playing right into the trolls hand(s) by constantly mentioning him, putting him down, comparing yourselves to him etc etc etc ...when all you have to do is IGNORE HIM.

How many more times does the infinitely wise (and modest) Mustelid have to say this?

LET IT GO ! 

DISAGREE 

Ignore him and he will still keep coming at you with an effort that is 10 times what you can or be bothered putting in

Look at the effort poor Doug puts in and has it changed anything.....No

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

DISAGREE 

Ignore him and he will still keep coming at you with an effort that is 10 times what you can or be bothered putting in

Look at the effort poor Doug puts in and has it changed anything.....No

Hmmm....well,  I don't want to come across as Mother Theresa.....but I have suggested several times to several people to just bloody ignore - or block if you really can't - those who seriously piss you off.   But you blokes just can't !

Is it testosterone, or something?

I deal with so many f###wits that I have made an art form of letting b/s go over my head.

[Hesi]

Mother hen Freda and you can be Mother hen on this site whenever you wish😇

Mother Teresa looked after lepers, so wrong site👿

As I mentioned, there is the bigger picture of people like the VI and a small handful  of others, who shall remain unamed giving these chat forums a bad name

[Blind Squirrel]

I find the topic interesting from the perspective of those racing organisations and individuals that are invited to comment and have dialogue with chat site users.

One of the major limitations is that you simply don't have the ability at times to provide comprehensive answers on tactics and strategies either through confidentiality constraints, business ethics, the need to provide a concise answer on an immensely difficult topic with many different issues or even simply trying to understand where the question is coming from i.e. is it a straight forward point, is there a hidden agenda being promoted or are you simply being trolled.

My area of expertise is in marketing - an area where everyone has an opinion and thinks everything they speak or write is a nugget of gold. It seems once people have seen a TV ad they think they are now a marketing guru.

For the main, marketing activities undertaken or just as critically not undertaken based off the back of a strategic marketing plan that was formulated off the back of research, market indicators, the economic environment, the goals of the organisation, the particular wants of your target market etc. etc and most importantly the allocation of the resources you have to spend on it.

Simply put you can't be everything to everyone but in my experience with this and other sites, the minute Joe or Jane Bloggs doesn't get the response they want on a topic the terms idiot, waste of space and far far worse get bandied around which doesn't exactly make you inclined to want to participate again.

I have seen dozens and dozens of well meaning and some not so well meaning ideas put forward on how to promote, market etc, the industry, and particularly specific  events, races etc. and most would fail  miserably if they were tried to be implemented due to

1. Logistically impossible

2. Too expensive for either the expected return, the longevity required to make it work fully or for less than marginal returns in the short term

3. Is not in the best interest of the organisation

4. Means absolutely nothing to the key market you are actually trying to target

Sorry to rabbit on but I certainly get where those in office are coming from if they don't want to participate - yes they could be thicker skinned and suck it up but there comes a tipping point for everyone when you try to engage and you suffer unmitigated abuse.

 

[Hesi]

Thanks for that input BS

I've been involved a lot with marketing in a former job, handling the product development side of things, but I don't think there was ever a day in 20 years when there was not contact with marketing(and sales) people.

Just diverting, it has always been my assertion, that racing lost its way, because it did not compete(market itself), was not set up to market itself, against all the new forms of wagering and entertainment that came along, but that's another story.

There are other key areas that people would also like to discuss, such as the legislation and wagering, both of which have huge effects on racing.  I would venture to say, in people like Curious and Mardi(both reasonably reasonable people), there are 2 individuals who probably know more about legislation and wagering, than anyone who works at NZTR and NZRB, who would love the opportunity to discuss the various initiatives planned or on the horizon

 

[Maximus]

3 hours ago, Hesi said:

DISAGREE 

Ignore him and he will still keep coming at you with an effort that is 10 times what you can or be bothered putting in

Look at the effort poor Doug puts in and has it changed anything.....No

disagree

you have established a osense-free site that is spoiled only y your ongoing obsession with oe suject -a subject that (y your ownn admissio) is irrelevant, worthless and meaningless.

You (all) have nothing to lose by ignoring it and everything to lose (like BOAY) if it gets the better of you. 

MM

[Hesi]

1 minute ago, Maximus said:

disagree

you have established a osense-free site that is spoiled only y your ongoing obsession with oe suject -a subject that (y your ownn admissio) is irrelevant, worthless and meaningless.

You (all) have nothing to lose by ignoring it and everything to lose (like BOAY) if it gets the better of you. 

MM

Point taken

[Hesi]

Thanks

[Hesi]

28 minutes ago, Maximus said:

disagree

you have established a osense-free site that is spoiled only y your ongoing obsession with oe suject -a subject that (y your ownn admissio) is irrelevant, worthless and meaningless.

You (all) have nothing to lose by ignoring it and everything to lose (like BOAY) if it gets the better of you. 

MM

Having had a beer and thought about it, one thing I would say, which is frustrating, is that a nonsense free site, has not caught the imagination of as many as we had thought.  Perhaps people just want to mainly squabble, or are used to these chat sites being the way they are.

I recall once, I think it was Rees who doubted a site could exist without the personal denigration