mardigras Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I read "NZTR’s current Racing Management System requires replacement due to Microsoft Access no longer being supported" I'd love to know who would have recommended Microsoft Access to such an organsation. As an ex-Microsoft database consultant, you'd be unlikely to ever hear the words Microsoft Access come out of their consultant's mouths. I never once even mentioned Access in the years I worked for Microsoft. It's a Small/Medium low level business tool - yet they are looking after many millions of dollars in funding from the TAB and loads of industry data. I am starting to see why we are faced with the level of problem that NZ Racing as an industry is facing. No one has a clue when it comes to operational nous and understanding of IT. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWJ Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, mardigras said: I read "NZTR’s current Racing Management System requires replacement due to Microsoft Access no longer being supported" I'd love to know who would have recommended Microsoft Access to such an organsation. As an ex-Microsoft database consultant, you'd be unlikely to ever hear the words Microsoft Access come out of their consultant's mouths. I never once even mentioned Access in the years I worked for Microsoft. It's a Small/Medium low level business tool - yet they are looking after many millions of dollars in funding from the TAB and loads of industry data. I am starting to see why we are faced with the level of problem that NZ Racing as an industry is facing. No one has a clue when it comes to operational nous and understanding of IT. Exactly - some amateur had no idea when the signed up for that but does explain the shit performance 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 A few million dollar races aside, the rest of the shit show continues to go from bad to worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 lowest common denominator is the accepted standard in NZ nowadays 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 10 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said: lowest common denominator is the accepted standard in NZ nowadays Just mixing up their languages. Sitio de la parada de autobus Site of the bus stop. english/spanish hybrid "sitio of the parada de autobus" (SOTP BUS) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 5 hours ago, mardigras said: I read "NZTR’s current Racing Management System requires replacement due to Microsoft Access no longer being supported" I'd love to know who would have recommended Microsoft Access to such an organsation. As an ex-Microsoft database consultant, you'd be unlikely to ever hear the words Microsoft Access come out of their consultant's mouths. I never once even mentioned Access in the years I worked for Microsoft. It's a Small/Medium low level business tool - yet they are looking after many millions of dollars in funding from the TAB and loads of industry data. I am starting to see why we are faced with the level of problem that NZ Racing as an industry is facing. No one has a clue when it comes to operational nous and understanding of IT. Sounds like when I had to move from Windows XP because it was no longer being supported. When would they have started using Access and what replacement should they go to. I presume the problems last Sat were due to problems with Access as database issues were alluded to in the press release Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Hesi said: Sounds like when I had to move from Windows XP because it was no longer being supported. When would they have started using Access and what replacement should they go to. I presume the problems last Sat were due to problems with Access as database issues were alluded to in the press release I don't know when they started using Access, but the simple answer is they should never have started using Access. It is not a tool for dealing with that level of information. It is about a small business storing some simple data, providing some basic forms associated with the business acting on the data and so on. I hope Access had nothing to do with the problems from last weekend - as that is a NZTR solution and shouldn't be anything to do with Entain/TAB. Access is not a highly scalable solution and is very limited around performance/querying. At best, if using Access, you should be only using some non DB features of Access with it pointing to a robust DB solution. If doing so, Microsoft would recommend SQL Server as the underlying DB technology with Access sitting on top for some internal management/presentation capability (if required). But even that would be an unlikely approach. There are many choices around DB technology. If they are using MS technology predominantly, then MS SQL server is obvious. But reading the article strongly suggests that there isn't anyone at NZTR skilled in IT, understands performance, infrastructure, scalability, security, availability, manageability. If they did, Access would never have passed 'go'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/22/2024 at 7:32 PM, mardigras said: I don't know when they started using Access, but the simple answer is they should never have started using Access. It is not a tool for dealing with that level of information. It is about a small business storing some simple data, providing some basic forms associated with the business acting on the data and so on. I hope Access had nothing to do with the problems from last weekend - as that is a NZTR solution and shouldn't be anything to do with Entain/TAB. Access is not a highly scalable solution and is very limited around performance/querying. At best, if using Access, you should be only using some non DB features of Access with it pointing to a robust DB solution. If doing so, Microsoft would recommend SQL Server as the underlying DB technology with Access sitting on top for some internal management/presentation capability (if required). But even that would be an unlikely approach. There are many choices around DB technology. If they are using MS technology predominantly, then MS SQL server is obvious. But reading the article strongly suggests that there isn't anyone at NZTR skilled in IT, understands performance, infrastructure, scalability, security, availability, manageability. If they did, Access would never have passed 'go'. Thanks, of course problems were with Entain/TAB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 It seems a bit odd to me given mardi's comments that they would now be reverting to Access since they have decided to scrap the implementation of the Racing Australia SNS. The quote in the headpost is originally from an April 2021 release by NZTR. As far as I can make out it is wrong anyway, as MS never suggested they would withdraw support for Access. It looks to me that someone at NZTR got the wrong end of the stick when MS announced withdrawal of support for Access 2016 which had long since been replaced by Access 2019. Don't see how they could stop supporting the current version when that remains part of the widely used MS365 package. If it is true that NZTR are reverting to Access and that is inadequate for their DB needs, then it sounds like we may be facing more problems with the NZTR system in the future. As noted, this has nothing to do with the TAB software that failed at the weekend and that Entain are replacing this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 All this is way over my head....but it beggars belief that such great assets ( our horses and our horse people ) come to be managed by such inadequate operators. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, curious said: It seems a bit odd to me given mardi's comments that they would now be reverting to Access since they have decided to scrap the implementation of the Racing Australia SNS. The quote in the headpost is originally from an April 2021 release by NZTR. As far as I can make out it is wrong anyway, as MS never suggested they would withdraw support for Access. It looks to me that someone at NZTR got the wrong end of the stick when MS announced withdrawal of support for Access 2016 which had long since been replaced by Access 2019. Don't see how they could stop supporting the current version when that remains part of the widely used MS365 package. If it is true that NZTR are reverting to Access and that is inadequate for their DB needs, then it sounds like we may be facing more problems with the NZTR system in the future. As noted, this has nothing to do with the TAB software that failed at the weekend and that Entain are replacing this year. Yes, Access is not planned for the scrap heap at this point. The only major issue is if they were using a feature of an older version of Access that has been since deprecated (and now fully removed from the product), then they wouldn't be able to migrate to the latest version of Access with their current software, so would need development to address that if they wanted to move to a later version. If that was the case, and they haven't yet moved to a later version, there is the chance that the version they are running on is unsupported by Microsoft. That doesn't mean it won't continue working, it just means you won't get any support for, or updates to the product - from Microsoft. Edited February 22 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 When I say above, the only major issue - I mean in respect of support around Access. The real issue is that they are still using Access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Freda said: All this is way over my head.... me too! - The only access I need on these hot days is to the fridge 😉 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, mardigras said: Yes, Access is not planned for the scrap heap at this point. The only major issue is if they were using a feature of an older version of Access that has been since deprecated (and now fully removed from the product), then they wouldn't be able to migrate to the latest version of Access with their current software, so would need development to address that if they wanted to move to a later version. If that was the case, and they haven't yet moved to a later version, there is the chance that the version they are running on is unsupported by Microsoft. That doesn't mean it won't continue working, it just means you won't get any support for, or updates to the product - from Microsoft. OK. That's a possibility then. I'd like if they would just say so briefly in their communications in that case though to make them understandable. I've used Access on and off for maybe 20 years. It's the only DB software I know anything about but that's because it's what was provided to individual users in my organisation and supported by our IT team. Seemed fine for those purposes, so as you say, individual to SME use. I think it also can be given a bit more grunt when linked to or overlaid on an external server such as SQL? It may be that was the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Has there actually been any general communication from NZTR that they've scrapped the SNS and what they are changing to? I mean other than Sharrock's announcements at the roadshows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 31 minutes ago, curious said: Has there actually been any general communication from NZTR that they've scrapped the SNS and what they are changing to? I mean other than Sharrock's announcements at the roadshows. Yes, clear info is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 36 minutes ago, curious said: OK. That's a possibility then. I'd like if they would just say so briefly in their communications in that case though to make them understandable. I've used Access on and off for maybe 20 years. It's the only DB software I know anything about but that's because it's what was provided to individual users in my organisation and supported by our IT team. Seemed fine for those purposes, so as you say, individual to SME use. I think it also can be given a bit more grunt when linked to or overlaid on an external server such as SQL? It may be that was the problem. Tools like Access and Excel are great tools - and as you say quite capable of doing some good things. But they need to be used where they are fit for purpose. Hopefully they are only using Access front end tools on a back end SQL DB. But that is also not clear. And if so, not a big job to replace Access/VBA with some alternate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 14 hours ago, mardigras said: don't know when they started using Access, but the simple answer is they should never have started using Access. It is not a tool for dealing with that level of information. It is about a small business storing some simple data, providing some basic forms associated with the business acting on the data Begs the question, are they using what limited internal knowledge of IT systems they possess to implement a complicated process in delivering a fit for purpose product or are they outsourcing the skills needed and getting bum advice. Do these people even know what they are doing. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: Begs the question, are they using what limited internal knowledge of IT systems they possess to implement a complicated process in delivering a fit for purpose product or are they outsourcing the skills needed and getting bum advice. Do these people even know what they are doing. ? I don't think they know what they are doing. I'm wondering whether the current solution was part of the rebranding to LoveRacing and attempting to improve their offerings. If it was, that wasn't that long ago, and someone there should have known better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 With what is on the NZTR website would it be regarded as a large or small database. Majority of it is in horses, results and videos going back about 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Videos only go back about 12 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 here is all the proof that they don't know what day it is! - 23 February (toda) is actually a Friday! MEETING NEWS Hawkes Bay RI | Wednesday 28 February Nomination Morning Weather: Cloudy Track: Soft 6 Moisture Meter: 48.8% Rail: True Rainfall: N/A Irrigation: 5mm Applied Last 24 Hours Weather and Track updated at 8.50am Thursday 23 February Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Hesi said: With what is on the NZTR website would it be regarded as a large or small database. Majority of it is in horses, results and videos going back about 20 years I would say the data they hold relating to horses, starts, owners etc etc as well as potentially financial data relating to owner/jockey/trainer payments - to me this would be classified as mission critical data. i.e. what would happen in the event that NZTR lost this data? No sane business would store mission critical data in MS Access. The videos would not be stored in Access. And Microsoft Access as a DB, has a size limit per Access file. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Do you know much about converting analogue videos into digital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hesi said: Do you know much about converting analogue videos into digital No. But I don't think Access has a datatype that supports video. Although I am not an Access expert. Whilst you can store them in SQL, you would have to have good reason for doing so as then you have to manage the format they are stored in and convert to whatever the presentation tool is that is serving them up, as opposed to simply managing links to video files. All their current video available online is digital. I doubt they are using anything archaic that does an analogue to digital switch between a server and an analog player - and that wouldn't scale up in my limited view of such things. Edited February 22 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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