The Sad State of All Black Rugby

[Hesi]

Another marginal performance against Scotland, with England ready to pounce this weekend.

No players or coaches nominated for the world rugby awards for the second year running

Scott Robertson being courted by the English to takes over from Eddie Jones after the WC.  And yes he is interested, and it will be big dollars involved.

Whoever said coaches don't win games, might want to reflect on Wayne Smith and what he has done with what was a hapless Black Ferns side in 6 months

 

[Maximus]

surprised that Ardie Savea not nominated. He has been consistently colossal in an under-whelming side.

What they are doing with/to Stephen Perofeta is bizarre, unless there'a master plan to surprise England with him (but I doubt it).

Probably a good thing  if we lose to the Mother Country a year before the World Cup. 

MM

[Maximus]

Max caught the last 20 mins of the England game...one question:

why would your halfback (with about 100 Tests behind him) kick the ball away to a rampant opposition with 2 minutes to go? 

Duh!

[pete]

2 minutes ago, Maximus said:

Max caught the last 20 mins of the England game...one question:

why would your halfback (with about 100 Tests behind him) kick the ball away to a rampant opposition with 2 minutes to go? 

Duh!

Thought exactly the same. Brainless decision.

[Hesi]

Turned off with 10 minutes left and the AB's up 25-6.  Come back in and it's a 25 all draw. WTF,  All Black teams don't cave like that, I can specifically recall, the last 10 minutes was when many an AB team pulled ahead of any spirited opposition, that had managed to stay close.  They could almost always find a way to win with hard uncompromising men like Fitzpatrick, Shelford, Zinzan Brooke.  Now the reverse seems to apply, they seem to be able to find a way to lose or go pretty close to it, and against lesser opposition.  

Quick check back through the records, pretty close to the worst AB team ever, no heart

[Maximus]

4 minutes ago, pete said:

Thought exactly the same. Brainless decision.

yep, and the forwards had done all the right things, claiming and keeping possession, soaking up time (Tauke'aho at the back of the maul, for example)...  frustrating the English. And TJ just kicks it away down the short side, straight into the hands of the oppo and ...hey presto...it's try time again. Poms will be filthy they missed the first conversion, coulda won the game.

We won't win the World Cup next year with this kind of 'game management' under pressure.

[Turny]

Awful display, getting rolled by a very average side. Our guys lost their way in the last 20.

End of year review with a Silverlake rep at the table will be a rock show

RWC a goner

Let's see what Razor does with England as he will have them for 4 years and they will succeed big time, including the WC 2027. Only downside is Canterbury may slip after Razor leaves which would be totally unacceptable of course ... just cannot happen

Go the mighty One Warriors we are desperate for success

 

[Hesi]

On a positive note, what a great sight it has been driving around parts of Auckland in the last few days, with so many Samoan flags flying on all sorts of vehicles

[Sir Castleton]

Same can be said here in Mount Druitt where 2 of the Samoan boys are from both the stand off and winger. Cars tooting their horns and flags waiving from their cars. Great to see being  a proud NZ Samoan. Shame about the rugby though.

[Turny]

On tour at Ruakaka this week and in Whangarei Samoan flags everywhere, love it the pure passion of it all

[Hesi]

10 minutes ago, Turny said:

On tour at Ruakaka this week and in Whangarei Samoan flags everywhere, love it the pure passion of it all

Yep, I bet you would never see some of the old boys driving around Remuera with All Black flags on the Mercs

[Midnight Caller]

I know  it's been a tough winter for all things happening  in Kiwi this year fellas! But the AB bashing is getting  a bit tiresome! Personally  I think you need to  cut the AB'S a bit of slack. We are not in the era of old, and teams around the world have improved which makes for entertaining  rugby, just look at the results from all the touring teams over the last three weeks. England are one of the toughest teams to beat at Twickenham. I thought it was an excellent match to watch and the AB'S will take alot out of the game as far as closing the game out against tough opposition. 

The coming World Cup  in France looks the most open for many years, which is only good for the watching public.

Eye patches  off people, we have been spoilt by era upon era of near on invincibility.  Forget the stats we are not going to win them all, but I wouldn't say no to a win or two in Paris next year😉

[Hesi]

Wayne Smith, World Rugby Coach of the Year

[Bloke]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:44 AM, Sir Castleton said:

Same can be said here in Mount Druitt where 2 of the Samoan boys are from both the stand off and winger. Cars tooting their horns and flags waiving from their cars. Great to see being  a proud NZ Samoan. Shame about the rugby though.

Compare that passion with going to an All-Blacks home game. You wait until about the 65 minute and if you listen very carefully you might just hear a chant whispered "All Blacks, All Blacks"

[Hesi]

17 hours ago, Midnight Caller said:

I know  it's been a tough winter for all things happening  in Kiwi this year fellas! But the AB bashing is getting  a bit tiresome! Personally  I think you need to  cut the AB'S a bit of slack. We are not in the era of old, and teams around the world have improved which makes for entertaining  rugby, just look at the results from all the touring teams over the last three weeks. England are one of the toughest teams to beat at Twickenham. I thought it was an excellent match to watch and the AB'S will take alot out of the game as far as closing the game out against tough opposition. 

The coming World Cup  in France looks the most open for many years, which is only good for the watching public.

Eye patches  off people, we have been spoilt by era upon era of near on invincibility.  Forget the stats we are not going to win them all, but I wouldn't say no to a win or two in Paris next year😉

The thing that has stood out for me is the total joy of everyone associated with the Black Ferns.  All the players are a delight, Ruby Tui is a gem and Ruahei Demant a quiet but foreboding leader.  How good is it to see Wayne Smith in such a laid back frame of mind.  It is all very infectious.  It has been a long time since we have seen such delight amongst the All Blacks and those associated with them.  I believe the character of the team is a reflection of the character of the coach, which is very dour.  The Black Ferns success has illustrated how much All Black rugby needs Scott Robertson

[Maximus]

35 minutes ago, Hesi said:

The thing that has stood out for me is the total joy of everyone associated with the Black Ferns.  All the players are a delight, Ruby Tui is a gem and Ruahei Demant a quiet but foreboding leader.  How good is it to see Wayne Smith in such a laid back frame of mind.  It is all very infectious.  It has been a long time since we have seen such delight amongst the All Blacks and those associated with them.  I believe the character of the team is a reflection of the character of the coach, which is very dour.  The Black Ferns success has illustrated how much All Black rugby needs Scott Robertson

ABs don't need better coaching...they need better on-field leadership... senior players penalised in the last 10 minutes (incl B Barrett off for 10) and a totally crass decision by TJ Perenara to kick the ball away with less than 2 mins to go...'don't kick it, pass it' should be his mantra during rehab from the achilles rupture... hopefully we'll learn from that error if put in a similar situation in World Cup  knockout game. Love the increasingly impressive front row and our ability in the 'tight' and maul situations- we were horrible early this winter...and out wide we have huge firepower with Clarke, Ioane, Jordan, Telea and perhaps some bloke called Stevenson they all keep raving about.2023 is looming as fab with a wide open World Cup and France the favourites.

MM

[Hesi]

13 minutes ago, Maximus said:

ABs don't need better coaching...they need better on-field leadership... senior players penalised in the last 10 minutes (incl B Barrett off for 10) and a totally crass decision by TJ Perenara to kick the ball away with less than 2 mins to go...'don't kick it, pass it' should be his mantra during rehab from the achilles rupture... hopefully we'll learn from that error if put in a similar situation in World Cup  knockout game. Love the increasingly impressive front row and our ability in the 'tight' and maul situations- we were horrible early this winter...and out wide we have huge firepower with Clarke, Ioane, Jordan, Telea and perhaps some bloke called Stevenson they all keep raving about.2023 is looming as fab with a wide open World Cup and France the favourites.

MM

Well, why doesn't the coach appoint an on field leader who can lead on the field.  If they have all this firepower in the backs and forwards, why are they performing so poorly then

[JustPlodded]

An interesting article about Smith and the Ferns last week. He went along to watch a game against a development team and at half time he tells the halfback to "put away the chip kick". Oh for a coach of the ABs with half the insight!
The other thing that has bugged me these past years... if the players can't last a game... get out of the gym and onto the roads.
Every game ends with a completely different team. And they have "turns" very week. If the "A" team starts the game we shouldn't be watching the "B" team just when the game is on the line. We have been in most close games these past few years.
Rugby is (was) a game of combinations, how do you develop these when you have to introduce yourself to the guy outside you every game?

[Hesi]

Well said Geoff.  I wonder how many careers this approach has ruined.  Beauden Barrett for instance, the most naturally gifted back since Dan Carter, some weeks he plays others he comes of the bench, some weeks he plays fullback, others standoff.

[Tonkatime]

On 11/21/2022 at 2:59 AM, Midnight Caller said:

I know  it's been a tough winter for all things happening  in Kiwi this year fellas! But the AB bashing is getting  a bit tiresome! Personally  I think you need to  cut the AB'S a bit of slack. We are not in the era of old, and teams around the world have improved which makes for entertaining  rugby, just look at the results from all the touring teams over the last three weeks. England are one of the toughest teams to beat at Twickenham. I thought it was an excellent match to watch and the AB'S will take alot out of the game as far as closing the game out against tough opposition. 

The coming World Cup  in France looks the most open for many years, which is only good for the watching public.

Eye patches  off people, we have been spoilt by era upon era of near on invincibility.  Forget the stats we are not going to win them all, but I wouldn't say no to a win or two in Paris next year😉

Good post mate, totally agree with you. Granted this is not one of the great ABs sides you only need to look at Australia VS Italy or Wales VS Georgia to see that the gap between the top 4-5 and the next 10-15 sides has closed massively. 
 

Although I think we lack a world class player or two at the moment we still have the best depth by a country mile (look at Irelands second 15 last week) and that will really help us come World Cup time.

[Maximus]

The game has changed drastically since professionalism - it's a war of attrition out there, so you can't expect just 15 players to play all 80 minutes...it's a Test of the depth of your squad and your ability to maintain high standards with combinations that haven't had a lot of on-field time.

I do think a lot of teams have a strategy of 'sacrifice a player for 10 minutes rather than concede 5 or 7pts now'. How do you stop that? 

RWC next year will be fascinating. France justifiably favourites but 4 or 5 other teams could easily take it. The renewed AB forward 'muscle and mongrel' since our mid-year woes and our defensive strength up front gives Max hope that we can take it ...but some of our backline tackline is poor ..Clarke in particular has to get better at nailing his man.

MM

[Turny]

I will be very happy if they make the semis at the RWC, but suspect they will be sidelined at the quarters.

Soon as it is over and we finally refresh all areas we might get back to being a force again, but 2 to 3 years in the future. Pity the poor coach coming in,  odds on bet it won't be Razor at least not under the current Head Office team

Edited November 21, 2022 by Turny

[Hesi]

On 11/22/2022 at 7:09 AM, JustPlodded said:

An interesting article about Smith and the Ferns last week. He went along to watch a game against a development team and at half time he tells the halfback to "put away the chip kick". Oh for a coach of the ABs with half the insight!
The other thing that has bugged me these past years... if the players can't last a game... get out of the gym and onto the roads.
Every game ends with a completely different team. And they have "turns" very week. If the "A" team starts the game we shouldn't be watching the "B" team just when the game is on the line. We have been in most close games these past few years.
Rugby is (was) a game of combinations, how do you develop these when you have to introduce yourself to the guy outside you every game?

Further to what you have said Geoff.  An article in Stuff this morning, that Richie Mo'unga has had 9 plus different second fives outside him in 5 years

[JustPlodded]

That would be about right. You could probably say the same about many players.
I was interested in Max's comment "it's a war of attrition out there, so you can't expect just 15 players to play all 80 minutes".
Yes but why have we allowed it turn in to a war of attrition? That is exactly what the countries with less "skillful" players wanted and changed the laws to bring about.
So why not think laterally and play a game designed to neutralise the big "pick & go" players ?
And 50/50 up and under kicks... really ?
Or start with the 2nd stringers and bring on top team when obviously the professional 2nd tier players cannot last 40 minutes 🙂 .
But then again to be honest I prefer a good game of league or NFL these days (thanks IRB) so I am not too stressed about it.

[Midnight Caller]

Very sad to hear the passing of former Scottish  international  Doddie Weir in the last couple of hours. He was diagnosed  with motor neurone disease in 2016,and raised huge amounts of money towards  his charity for awareness and medical research. A hard man on the field,but a gentleman off it! 

I had the pleasure of playing against Doddie in the early/ mid nineties while he was playing for Melrose in the Scottish Borders. I found him to be a warm and humble guy, who loved a good chat in the bar after the game. Scottish Rugby  has lost a true warrior at a very young age and with what he has gone through over the last few years, may he now rest in peace. I will be raising a wee dram to  Doddie tonight. 🥃