Hesi Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I think it is fair to say, that the Trentham track is not up to standard after watching what happened yesterday. I note that these are the plans for Trentham TRENTHAM REDEVELOPMENT UPDATE – JUNE 2023 - Wellington Racing Club If this is the case, then you would expect a complete relaying of the track. Trentham started yesterday as S5, the first 5 races, horses mainly stuck to the inside. After R5 it was downgraded S6, with the showery weather. I don't know how much rain fell. Progressively after that, horses started coming wider and wider into the straight, by the time we got to the Thorndon, it looked like it was Winter racing, with horses coming very wide and all winners coming from wide out (okay if you could get there). But, the Thorndon was run in 1.36, indicative of a G4 track???????????, the time even more mystifying when you consider how much extra distance they ran coming wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Around 1.36 is an expected time for a S6 for a quality field run at reasonable pace. In December on a S5, Islington Lass was down as running 1.34.82 in a R75. I don't think the going wide is that big a factor if the track they are running on is near the stated level. The winner had the perfect run for the first 1000m doing things very comfortably under its own steam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Maizcay Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 could definitely do with some work, but i thought it did ok considering the circumstances hot and mostly dry week in Wellington leading up to the day, they irrigated during the week to avoid the forecast showers creating a skating rink more rain on the day than expected and track held up pretty well considering the amount of rain they got (1.36 and 1.37 for the last two 1600m races) only natural that the inside cut out considering the rain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Except the inside was cutting out before the rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 Anyone know how much rain fell during the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 The fact that the track is cutting out on the inside mid Summer, is indicative the drainage is poor. By comparison, If Ellerslie get say 50 mm of rain during the week and they start coming wide on Sat because it is cutting up on the rail, you would have to give the new track a fail mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Maizcay Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, curious said: Except the inside was cutting out before the rain. it rained here for much of the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 18 minutes ago, Our Maizcay said: it rained here for much of the morning Not being rude but where exactly is 'here'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Our Maizcay said: it rained here for much of the morning Yes. I know that but I don't think it was a lot. I was really pointing to the fact that the inconsistency was already evident. It appeared to be cutting out on the inside from the 600 in the first and certainly in the straight whereas it was not a few metres out. In the second down the chute the inside horse was marking the ground the whole way down whereas the others a few meters out were not. That's not satisfactory for any race day, let alone Trentham's biggest and makes a mockery of NZTR's SOI objective: Racing surfaces and tracks are consistent, safe and well maintained across the short, medium and long-term, leading to safer racedays for both horse and rider, as well as increased confidence in wagering Gore was also a Soft 6 and raced evenly across the track for 11 races. I certainly won't be betting at Trentham next week if that's what they are going to dish up. Edited January 20 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 11 minutes ago, curious said: Yes. I know that but I don't think it was a lot. I was really pointing to the fact that the inconsistency was already evident. It appeared to be cutting out on the inside from the 600 in the first and certainly in the straight whereas it was not a few metres out. In the second down the chute the inside horse was marking the ground the whole way down whereas the others a few meters out were not. That's not satisfactory for any race day, let alone Trentham's biggest and makes a mockery of NZTR's SOI objective: Racing surfaces and tracks are consistent, safe and well maintained across the short, medium and long-term, leading to safer racedays for both horse and rider, as well as increased confidence in wagering Gore was also a Soft 6 and raced evenly across the track for 11 races. I certainly won't be betting at Trentham next week if that's what they are going to dish up. Yes I saw that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 Note this comment from Tim Savell CEO of RACE. I presume this can only mean a total relaying of the track, much in the same way as Ellerslie. So they will be keeping a close eye on how the Strathayr performs, bearing in mind the substantially different climatic conditions In light of this positive news, we also thought it was timely to update members on the redevelopment of RACE Trentham, which over the next 5-10 years will transform the venue into one of the world’s premier racecourses. Also I note in the above article this, with regards to the development Malcolm Gillies and his team at Gillies Group have been working extremely hard on delivering a host of quality racing facilities that are underpinned by sustainable residential and commercial activities. They’ve gained a full understanding of the current operations at Trentham, while also investigating best practice from around the world. In May, a delegation that included architects, developers and RACE personnel toured around five Australian racecourses, gaining useful insights that will assist with the planning and delivery of the project. The basis of the redevelopment is all new raceday hospitality and operational areas, along with 850 apartments and purpose-built commercial spaces, along with a hotel and associated facilities. The next major step in the development timeline is the finalisation of the contractual arrangements between RACE and the Gillies Group, which Kainga Ora have asked to be completed by later this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 25 minutes ago, curious said: Yes. I know that but I don't think it was a lot. I was really pointing to the fact that the inconsistency was already evident. It appeared to be cutting out on the inside from the 600 in the first and certainly in the straight whereas it was not a few metres out. In the second down the chute the inside horse was marking the ground the whole way down whereas the others a few meters out were not. That's not satisfactory for any race day, let alone Trentham's biggest and makes a mockery of NZTR's SOI objective: Racing surfaces and tracks are consistent, safe and well maintained across the short, medium and long-term, leading to safer racedays for both horse and rider, as well as increased confidence in wagering Gore was also a Soft 6 and raced evenly across the track for 11 races. I certainly won't be betting at Trentham next week if that's what they are going to dish up. The other point on this with Trentham, there was a fast lane, that slowly got further out as the day progressed. If you got to that fast lane, you basically won or went close. Only a limited number of horses can use this fast lane as it is not very wide. So many other horses (not all by any means) did not get a winning chance. Would pay to ignore the form out of Trentham on Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, Hesi said: The other point on this with Trentham, there was a fast lane, that slowly got further out as the day progressed. If you got to that fast lane, you basically won or went close. Only a limited number of horses can use this fast lane as it is not very wide. So many other horses (not all by any means) did not get a winning chance. Would pay to ignore the form out of Trentham on Sat I had a longshot I liked in the Cup. Cruised along nicely until the turn, rider goes the inside route, challenges for a about 5 strides and that was it. The horse concerned was an out and out stayer and I don't understand the rider's thinking. Agree 100% about form. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I certainly hope Trentham don't bother with Strathayr. I'm yet to see them perform well in a colder and wetter climate. Better off saving the money and building a well drained re-laid turf track. Ellerslie is likely to be in a similar boat. Winters aren't exactly warm, but still wet - probably why racing isn't scheduled there in the winter. They should have adopted a cyclic approach to track management - take a city track out every 2 - 3 years and rebuild. Take a provincial track out every 2 - 3 years and do major works or rebuild depending on an assessment. Punters won't come back to NZ racing if there is no confidence in the track. And that's where we are now. One track given you would expect Ellerslie to perform for a while, isn't enough. The vast majority of tracks need to be of sufficient standard to retain punter confidence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, mardigras said: I certainly hope Trentham don't bother with Strathayr. I'm yet to see them perform well in a colder and wetter climate. Better off saving the money and building a well drained re-laid turf track. Ellerslie is likely to be in a similar boat. Winters aren't exactly warm, but still wet - probably why racing isn't scheduled there in the winter. They should have adopted a cyclic approach to track management - take a city track out every 2 - 3 years and rebuild. Take a provincial track out every 2 - 3 years and do major works or rebuild depending on an assessment. Punters won't come back to NZ racing if there is no confidence in the track. And that's where we are now. One track given you would expect Ellerslie to perform for a while, isn't enough. The vast majority of tracks need to be of sufficient standard to retain punter confidence. Agree I think part of the Entain money has been put aside for infrastructure development, so it will all not go to stakes. Avondale won't come to the party, the revenue from it's sale was a fundamental part of the Messara report, in generating enough money to do what you say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, Hesi said: Agree I think part of the Entain money has been put aside for infrastructure development, so it will all not go to stakes. Avondale won't come to the party, the revenue from it's sale was a fundamental part of the Messara report, in generating enough money to do what you say Maybe that is the case with Avondale. But I simply oppose the idea that a community based racing venue should become assets of NZTR. If racing stops there, the assets should be given to the community in some fashion. You can't neglect the infrastructure. The increase in stakes shouldn't have happened ahead of the requirement for massive money into infrastructure, as the interest in NZ Racing will not increase if the infrastructure is not addressed. My bakery needs properly maintained ovens otherwise my sales go down the gurgler. It's basic stuff. Increasing the stakes has done nothing to change interest in NZ Racing - and as per this thread, there are big problems even with all the extra stakemoney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 32 minutes ago, mardigras said: Maybe that is the case with Avondale. But I simply oppose the idea that a community based racing venue should become assets of NZTR. If racing stops there, the assets should be given to the community in some fashion. You can't neglect the infrastructure. The increase in stakes shouldn't have happened ahead of the requirement for massive money into infrastructure, as the interest in NZ Racing will not increase if the infrastructure is not addressed. My bakery needs properly maintained ovens otherwise my sales go down the gurgler. It's basic stuff. Increasing the stakes has done nothing to change interest in NZ Racing - and as per this thread, there are big problems even with all the extra stakemoney. I presume the Avondale situation will end up with some arrangement with ATR (Ellerslie and Counties) or in court. Some sort of talks must be going on or TAB NZ would not be continuing to issue dates for racing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, curious said: Yes. I know that but I don't think it was a lot. I was really pointing to the fact that the inconsistency was already evident. It appeared to be cutting out on the inside from the 600 in the first and certainly in the straight whereas it was not a few metres out. In the second down the chute the inside horse was marking the ground the whole way down whereas the others a few meters out were not. That's not satisfactory for any race day, let alone Trentham's biggest and makes a mockery of NZTR's SOI objective: Racing surfaces and tracks are consistent, safe and well maintained across the short, medium and long-term, leading to safer racedays for both horse and rider, as well as increased confidence in wagering Gore was also a Soft 6 and raced evenly across the track for 11 races. I certainly won't be betting at Trentham next week if that's what they are going to diAResh up. NZ tracks ARE consistent ...consistently unpredictable, unreliable, unsafe and unfair. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Rosehill played very well yesterday, but HQ played OK but had a fence bias. Generally very pleased with Metro tracks in Aus, particularly at Mlbs 3 premier city venues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Hesi said: I presume the Avondale situation will end up with some arrangement with ATR (Ellerslie and Counties) or in court. Some sort of talks must be going on or TAB NZ would not be continuing to issue dates for racing there. Have you seen the draft dates for 24/25? I've seen the harness ones but can't find the thoroughbred ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Nothing there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 OK. Just wondered how you knew that Avondale had been issued dates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buller Rep Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 5 hours ago, curious said: Except the inside was cutting out before the rain. Not what the winning jockey after the first when he won on the rail. Admittedly the rail up the shute was definitely off as seen during race 2 and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 50 minutes ago, Buller Rep said: Not what the winning jockey after the first when he won on the rail. I'm not sure when I've seen a rider criticise the track after just winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, curious said: OK. Just wondered how you knew that Avondale had been issued dates? Dates for this season, it has 3 or 4 still 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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