mardigras Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, Hesi said: Have a look at the climate graphs for Auckland and Melbourne, similar temp range, sunlight hours the only notable difference is as I said, a lot more rain in Auckland in Winter and Spring Stats can be made to represent anything. In the last 10 years, how many days in Auckland reach 40+ degrees. Where are those days in your stats? The air temperature will be higher in more days in Melbourne than Auckland. And probably many days lower as well. They do NOT have similar climate no matter what your charts have lead you to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 52 minutes ago, mardigras said: I don't understand why they didn't just build a turf track. May have still had similar issues, but the costs would be well down. Strathayr is a turf track, the only discernible difference is the 100mm square plastic pieces, and yes probably paid a premium, but a lot of that would have been in the huge amount of drainage work they did. We all saw pics of the mountain of boulders they excavated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 14 minutes ago, Hesi said: Strathayr is a turf track, the only discernible difference is the 100mm square plastic pieces, and yes probably paid a premium, but a lot of that would have been in the huge amount of drainage work they did. We all saw pics of the mountain of boulders they excavated A turf track with massive additional costs. Flemington is a turf track. Why didn't they go with Strathayr? Why did Randwick Kensington rip their one out? It's just a turf track after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 We are not privy to a breakdown of costs for the Ellerslie track. Costs that would have been incurred had they gone for a 'turf' track, and costs that are specific to Strathayr specifications, so I don't think anyone can comment on that. For example, they appear to have done a lot of sub drainage work. Would that have been necessary with a usual turf track, or was that a Strathayr requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, mardigras said: I don't understand why they didn't just build a turf track. May have still had similar issues, but the costs would be well down. Or....if they went ahead and built a Strathayr-as they did- why, in God's name, did they not follow the tried and true construction from A to Z, instead of deviating off course with another brilliant idea. Unbelievable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Freda said: Or....if they went ahead and built a Strathayr-as they did- why, in God's name, did they not follow the tried and true construction from A to Z, instead of deviating off course with another brilliant idea. Unbelievable. 100% agree but as I said they seem to know more than anyone and why the hell did they not fix the contours going out of the straight and the camber of the corner...for the sake of keeping its character ...well it lost that when they sold the hill I would of thought...and why on earth with the amount they spent was there a need still for a crossing where it is...surely it could have been a tunnel under the track...but hey thats like commonsense. Edited April 10 by RJB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Caller Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 What does Wilcox have to say about all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, Midnight Caller said: What does Wilcox have to say about all this? I bet he doesn't sleep well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 9 minutes ago, Midnight Caller said: What does Wilcox have to say about all this? Chris Wood was going to talk to him about it today. Maybe give Chris a ring to see what he found out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buller Rep Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, Hesi said: Not defending them, just pointing out, that as you say a lot of money has been spent with good intent (why would it not be) but something has gone badly wrong. I'm pretty sure heads will roll, and i think the main one will be Bruce Sharrock, even though he probably had little directly to do with Ellerslie This is what Liz asked over on Race Cafe Where has Bruce Sharrock gone too? He's the boss but never has anything to say. Even the few "news releases" appear to be written by Darin Balcombe from what I can see. Just wondering. Maybe Hesi and her are secretly talking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Hesi said: We are not privy to a breakdown of costs for the Ellerslie track. Costs that would have been incurred had they gone for a 'turf' track, and costs that are specific to Strathayr specifications, so I don't think anyone can comment on that. For example, they appear to have done a lot of sub drainage work. Would that have been necessary with a usual turf track, or was that a Strathayr requirement You can comment on it - unless you are suggesting the Strathayr components/system came at no additional cost. I didn't think Strathayr were in the business of not making money. You have been diligent in defending this implementation - without any facts specific to this installation yourself. Why don't you tell us what this solution provided - that made it the right thing to do. And ask yourself, if these things are providing that, why isn't every new built turf track implementing that as part of the solution. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 56 minutes ago, Freda said: Or....if they went ahead and built a Strathayr-as they did- why, in God's name, did they not follow the tried and true construction from A to Z, instead of deviating off course with another brilliant idea. Unbelievable. If you look at the video 2.20- 3.40, it shows how a Strathayr track is constructed, including the specialist equipment required. The first 3 layers look standard for any drainage system, the growing medium layer specific to Strathayr and the turf grass selection based on climatic conditions, so it is likely they selected a turf grass suited to Auckland. But who knows, will we ever know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, Hesi said: If you look at the video 2.20- 3.40, it shows how a Strathayr track is constructed, including the specialist equipment required. The first 3 layers look standard for any drainage system, the growing medium layer specific to Strathayr and the turf grass selection based on climatic conditions, so it is likely they selected a turf grass suited to Auckland. But who knows, will we ever know Why are you so supportive of the decision? What has made you think this will be some sort of magic elixir. Moonee Valley might be generally OK, but most of the Strathayr tracks in Australia are nothing to write home about - and most conduct very little racing in the colder months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 18 minutes ago, Hesi said: If you look at the video 2.20- 3.40, it shows how a Strathayr track is constructed, including the specialist equipment required. The first 3 layers look standard for any drainage system, the growing medium layer specific to Strathayr and the turf grass selection based on climatic conditions, so it is likely they selected a turf grass suited to Auckland. But who knows, will we ever know But ATC did not follow that recipe. They decided to deviate in accord with their own wisdom which is not currently looking too sharp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, curious said: But ATC did not follow that recipe. They decided to deviate in accord with their own wisdom which is not currently looking too sharp. I think I read you saying that elsewhere. Can you elaborate more on how they deviated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Investigation underway after Ellerslie abandonment Joshua Smith, LOVERACING.NZ News Desk 10 April 2024 An investigation is set to commence tomorrow morning (Thursday) into the abandonment of Ellerslie’s Wednesday meeting as a result of safety concerns following a slip on the venues newly installed StrathAyr track. A decision was made to abandon the mid-week meeting following senior jockey Opie Bosson’s report of his horse, The Storyteller, slipping near the crossing following race three, which the Stephen Marsh-trained gelding won. “Following race two we had concerns raised by a few of the jockeys in regards to the surface around the home turn,” Stipendiary Steward Lauren Selvakumaran said. “We convened a meeting with those jockeys and on the films it wasn’t apparent that there was any concern. At that time, they (jockeys) also agreed with that and were happy to keep riding. “Post race three, concerns were raised again. We convened a meeting with jockeys, club officials, Stewards and NZTR (New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing) representatives in which Mr Bosson outlined he slipped near the crossing, so we went and had a look at the track and identified a slip mark where Mr Bosson had stated it had happened. We also drove around to the 450m mark and observed a few marks around that area. “We weren’t satisfied with the surface being safe to continue.” Selvakumaran said the idea of moving the rail was floated, but it was decided that wasn’t feasible given the time it would take. “The rail was out 10m today which was the first time the rail has been at that position, so that may have played a part,” she said. “It was suggested a possible rail move, but we just don’t have the time for that as it would take five-plus hours, so we would run out of daylight.” Auckland Thoroughbred Racing chief executive Paul Wilcox was disappointed in the outcome and said the Club is working hard with relevant parties to rectify the issue. “Naturally we are disappointed in relation to having an abandonment. We pride ourselves on doing things right, so we let ourselves down when this happens,” Wilcox said. There were initial reports of horses slipping on Karaka Millions night in January, just the second meeting on the new surface, however, there have been no reports of such issues in subsequent meetings at the venue until Wednesday. “From what we can ascertain, it is the same issue where the grass is matted and joins the sand profile, which is causing the slipperiness. We thought we had that under control and we obviously didn’t,” Wilcox said. “All of those races subsequent to Karaka Millions night have been run without issue and all the jockeys have been happy with the surface. Today with the rail out 10m, which is ground that hasn’t been raced on, it has caused the same issue we experienced on Karaka Millions night.” The track is set to undergo further renovation over winter, however, Wilcox said the club will meet with NZTR and StrathAyr representatives on Thursday morning to discuss the issue and work out a plan to try and rectify the issue ahead of their next meeting in 10 days’ time. “After the last race meeting here (this season), which is the 25th of May, it (StrathAyr track) will get a heavy renovation and that will be focussing on removing that matting to ensure going forward that that can’t cause any issues. This time next year, it will be settled and hopefully racing perfectly,” Wilcox said. “We have had a discussion with NZTR and we have got another meeting with them in the morning to work out a plan of attack so that we can have the confidence of our jockeys, owners, trainers and punters in our surface.” NZTR chief operating officer Darin Balcombe feels for the participants affected by Wednesday’s abandonment and said the three parties will be working hard on Thursday to identify a remedy. “We had a quick catch-up late this afternoon on the abandonment. We are going to meet again tomorrow morning and we have got StrathAyr coming over from Australia,” Balcombe said. “We are going to have a look at what we can do going forward into next week and whether it is still viable to run that meeting next Saturday. “We have got to do better. We can’t have these issues coming up and we have got to make sure that we get these fixes and make sure the tracks are improving. “I am pretty gutted for the owners that would have gone to the course today and had to go home again without a race. I really feel for them. “We will work through the issues and come up with a plan going forward and we will get that out to the industry at some stage tomorrow.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hesi said: I think I read you saying that elsewhere. Can you elaborate more on how they deviated What? ATR reported it themselves. No farmer would even put their cows on that grass in that time frame, let alone race 500kg horses on it. Totally mad. It is interesting to note that this is the first StrathAyr track to have undergone a seeding process with all others being turfed – where sods of turf, pre-grown offsite, are laid on the track. There are benefits to both with turfing providing a ‘readymade’ surface for those tracks where time is of the essence, however, with the luxury of time, seeding is recommended as it results in greater root strength. Edited April 10 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Okay thanks, I had not seen that, but assumed that is what had happened as the facilities are not available in NZ to do turfing at that scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 So, it is starting to look like they just raced on the track too soon, no doubt because of pressure that Karaka Million night was being held on Jan 27, non-negotiable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, Hesi said: Okay thanks, I had not seen that, but assumed that is what had happened as the facilities are not available in NZ to do turfing at that scale. They could have done it in Aus if that's the case but I fail to see why it couldn't have been done here if they wanted. It's not a big scale and they did that for the likes of Hong Kong. Never the less, they will continue to do what they have been for the last 20 years or so and continue to lose punter and other participant involvement and confidence. Nothing we can say here or elsewhere will change that ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, curious said: They could have done it in Aus if that's the case but I fail to see why it couldn't have been done here if they wanted. It's not a big scale and they did that for the likes of Hong Kong. Never the less, they will continue to do what they have been for the last 20 years or so and continue to lose punter and other participant involvement and confidence. Nothing we can say here or elsewhere will change that ignorance. That would have escalated the cost even more, so probably why they decided to go with seeding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, Hesi said: That would have escalated the cost even more, so probably why they decided to go with seeding I'd say they've escalated the cost a good deal more by doing what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, curious said: I'd say they've escalated the cost a good deal more by doing what they did. Absolutely Seeding is ultimately better, but takes longer and they had a deadline of Jan 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Caller Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, curious said: Chris Wood was going to talk to him about it today. Maybe give Chris a ring to see what he found out. He is too busy scoring goals for Nottingham Forest ⚽️ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Just looking back, Martin Neville from Strathayr in Aus, who was the Ellerslie project coordinator (April 22 on), along with 3 other people from Strathayr were present on the job. So you could assume decisions were not taken in isolation by Ellerslie/ATR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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