pete Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 9 minutes ago, RJB said: I thought we were not going to get soft tracks..so what's changed...?? I guess they've got rid of the 'surface tension'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Never really did understand this surface tension thing and I doubt anyone else in the industry does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 The only reference I can find to it is that the dead thatch (grass) forms a layer that is difficult for water to penetrate and wetting agents are added to help this, but then I thought the problem they were having was this shallow root mass???? I think we are all being bullshitted to save a few skins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Show Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 You can have issues if the ground is falling away below it so when horses run on it, it gives as it would on a soft track until it gives too much. Perhaps the underlying surface was not sufficiently consolidated ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 There were some pretty major earthworks going on. They excavated the entire track then put in the various underlying substrates, so it would be surprising if that happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 11 hours ago, Hesi said: The only reference I can find to it is that the dead thatch (grass) forms a layer that is difficult for water to penetrate and wetting agents are added to help this, but then I thought the problem they were having was this shallow root mass???? I think we are all being bullshitted to save a few skins That is 100% correct...twisting and turning like worms to save their own skins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Unfortunately, because I am not a doomsayer, but there is a very real possibility that the meeting will be called off prior to or after R1. There has been a lot of steady rain in Auckland with a lot more to come. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the racing industry in NZ. The main reason for building this track, was to give a world class racing surface, that would give punters confidence, and therefore increase wagering. I think already we are seeing question marks from punters about the track, question marks from connections about racing their horses on it. We still do not know why it has gone wrong. You simply can't point the finger at anyone until it is known what went wrong Explanations from ATR are lacking credibility. I don't know whether they can have an independent inquiry, but that is what is needed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Hesi said: Unfortunately, because I am not a doomsayer, but there is a very real possibility that the meeting will be called off prior to or after R1. There has been a lot of steady rain in Auckland with a lot more to come. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the racing industry in NZ. The main reason for building this track, was to give a world class racing surface, that would give punters confidence, and therefore increase wagering. I think already we are seeing question marks from punters about the track, question marks from connections about racing their horses on it. We still do not know why it has gone wrong. You simply can't point the finger at anyone until it is known what went wrong Explanations from ATR are lacking credibility. I don't know whether they can have an independent inquiry, but that is what is needed What is a head-scratcher for me, is that Strathayr has allowed its product name to be used in the face of the mess-up. I would have thought they would be issuing disclaimers all over the place. Edited April 19 by Freda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Fair comment, and it suggests that they have culpability as well. Strathayr grow turf in a very controlled environment. Trying to repeat that outside of that environment, on a racecourse has a number of risks to it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Caller Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm sure they changed something in the layers below from the tried and tested. Whether that was changed by the ATR or the contractors for costing reason I do not know. I don't have a beef with PW but his eyes are too close together for my liking.Reminds of that sidekick Penfold🤓, wasn't he a gerbil or rat or something? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Caller Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 9 minutes ago, Hesi said: Fair comment, and it suggests that they have culpability as well. Strathayr grow turf in a very controlled environment. Trying to repeat that outside of that environment, on a racecourse has a number of risks to it The question is though Hesi, is it the turf that is the issue or what lays below? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 I think I replied to you that I recall reading (I think) that they found so much volcanic rock, that they decided to crush it on site to use as the compacted gravel layer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Midnight Caller said: The question is though Hesi, is it the turf that is the issue or what lays below? As I witnessed myself a large portion of the work from excavation through to the final layer of topsoil, I can assure you its nothing to do with whats below. My thoughts are the issue is around the delays (caused mainly by the amount of solid rock under the track being more vast than anticipated) & the need to get back racing there. The racing may have started back earlier than it should have. The professionalism of the team managing the track construction from Aus (they used mainly NZ labour) was very high, so I doubt these issues are anything along those lines either & I suspect some of it isn't unexpected. Edited April 19 by BarryB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 5 minutes ago, Hesi said: I think I replied to you that I recall reading (I think) that they found so much volcanic rock, that they decided to crush it on site to use as the compacted gravel layer Yes they did for a small amount of it, most was used elsewhere. The sub base came mainly from Papakura & the sand from the Waikato river. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 I have a feeling you are in the industry so know what you are talking about. I presume the sub base was a graded base course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 12 minutes ago, BarryB said: As I witnessed myself a large portion of the work from excavation through to the final layer of topsoil, I can assure you its nothing to do with whats below. My thoughts are the issue is around the delays (caused mainly by the amount of solid rock under the track being more vast than anticipated) & the need to get back racing there. The racing may have started back earlier than it should have. The professionalism of the team managing the track construction from Aus (they used mainly NZ labour) was very high, so I doubt these issues are anything along those lines either & I suspect some of it isn't unexpected. Thanks, good to get some more informed input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Caller Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Thanks for the information Barry and Hesi. I will turn my attention to researching this Penfold character and report back after I inspect the back of my eyelids for a few hours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 5 minutes ago, Hesi said: I have a feeling you are in the industry so know what you are talking about. I presume the sub base was a graded base course Yes (Seal Chip, Concrete Aggs quality) & if I remember rightly its 1.2mtrs deep & about 20,000 tonne was used. No short cuts happened here & it should never have any issues with draining, it would be a better sub surface & deeper than most sports fields in NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Or over 700 Truck & Trailer loads if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 So as you say, it comes back to the turf (seeded) not being ready, but Karaka Million was happening here regardless, so that is where the problem lies. Begs the question whether they should have raced today on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 2 minutes ago, BarryB said: Or over 700 Truck & Trailer loads if that helps. Sounds like you may have been driving one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 minute ago, Hesi said: So as you say, it comes back to the turf (seeded) not being ready, but Karaka Million was happening here regardless, so that is where the problem lies. Begs the question whether they should have raced today on it Yes, my thought exactly, they raced on it 6 months too early after the delays caused by as I mentioned above. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 So Curious was also on the right track when he said it takes a long time to get a durable turf surface when you seed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Hesi said: Sounds like you may have been driving one lol Nope, but certainly had a lot to do with the building of the track & the team from Aus. I also feel that we as a society have become totally risk averse in the cotton wool society we live in. The mere hint of an issue & the jocks are pulling pin today that 20 yrs ago they never would have & rightly so as there lives are at risk. We have to take this also into context when looking at this stuff & looking back into the past. Edited April 19 by BarryB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 4 minutes ago, BarryB said: Yes, my thought exactly, they raced on it 6 months too early after the delays caused by as I mentioned above. Because the extra excavation was adding to the cost, would this have been the reason why they decided to seed on site as it was cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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