And so let the blood letting begin

[Hesi]

We didn't actually see any evaluation reports done by RITA/NZTR on the options for AWT's.

Strathayr seems to have stood the test of time around the world, yet was it even considered?

[Hesi]

After reading the many opinions and articles about racing in NZ, I have to say, I am gobsmacked about the amount of parochialism and deep divisions there are.  

Racing in NZ is a cot case

RITA will cut costs, but not enough, because it is looking at things through the same old eyes

The major changes that are required, to boost revenue, will not happen, once again, same old eyes.

So revenue will struggle, costs are still too high, therefore the return to racing will be very much reduced, because racing cannot live beyond its means anymore, which will further exacerbate the divisions and parochialism, and many will leave the industry, either chuck it in or move offshore

What is happening with Avondale, shows just how deep those divisions run

[mardigras]

11 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Strathayr seems to have stood the test of time around the world, yet was it even considered?

Not all installations have proven as successful. Moe has not always been considered a success. Note that HK don't race during the wet season. Launceston don't race on their one during winter.

Even Moonee Valley is used sparingly over winter (although usually has a couple of August dates).

As per my previous post on the topic, proper analysis would be required to see how it performs under NZ climate - which is pretty wet generally in the winter.

[VC!]

One thing that will increase turnover with the NZ Tab is when they pass the law that bans New Zealanders from betting with overseas corporates

[mardigras]

3 minutes ago, VC! said:

One thing that will increase turnover with the NZ Tab is when they pass the law that bans New Zealanders from betting with overseas corporates

Maybe. Most will find a work around or give up I think. If they aren't price sensitive, they may return to NZ TAB, but if they aren't price sensitive, then why did they bother looking elsewhere in the first place (outside of poor usability of NZ TAB - which would still be the case).

Edited May 17, 2020 by mardigras

[curious]

4 minutes ago, VC! said:

One thing that will increase turnover with the NZ Tab is when they pass the law that bans New Zealanders from betting with overseas corporates

Will it though? And what law is that?

[VC!]

30 minutes ago, curious said:

Will it though? And what law is that?

Maybe a little those who won’t use a VPN maybe

I was listening to Neil Davis on his podcast with the GOAT on his latest post Heads Up 15/05 and he mentioned they were going to try and pass a law restricting Kiwis from investing with overseas corporates

[mardigras]

2 minutes ago, VC! said:

Maybe a little those who won’t use a VPN maybe

I was listening to Neil Davis on his podcast with the GOAT on his latest post Heads Up 15/05 and he mentioned they were going to try and pass a law restricting Kiwis from investing with overseas corporates

It's extreme control of your citizens. I don't know if that will meet with support. And I don't think it will gain them much. Time will tell. They are already getting fees from most of them anyway - risk free.

[curious]

25 minutes ago, VC! said:

Maybe a little those who won’t use a VPN maybe

I was listening to Neil Davis on his podcast with the GOAT on his latest post Heads Up 15/05 and he mentioned they were going to try and pass a law restricting Kiwis from investing with overseas corporates

Not the impression I have. WP has fast tracked a DIA review as I understand it. That was already completed last year and put out for consultation. https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Online-Gambling-Consultation/$file/Online-Gambling-in-New-Zealand-Discussion-Document.pdf  Seems to have stalled perhaps understandably. It is designed to align with the racing related reforms in process but not over-rule them and applies to other online gambling e.g.pokies, poker etc. as I read it. That's what it sounded like Winnie was talking about the other day I think. The Racing reform -process has Racefields and the PoC tax to address this as far as I can see. Geo-blocking and credit card restrictions look like they could be an option for the other online gambling restrictions though.

If so, for both, people will likely mostly work around it or quit I'd say as mardi suggests. Think that will take more than a VPN solution though if the former. Probably an address and bank account in the jurisdiction concerned at least. Not sure how they would police that. At best very expensive to do.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by curious

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

We didn't actually see any evaluation reports done by RITA/NZTR on the options for AWT's.

Strathayr seems to have stood the test of time around the world, yet was it even considered?

I stand to be corrected - but I don't think Strathayr is a go-to for every day training purposes.  Rather a raceday surface.

[curious]

3 minutes ago, Freda said:

I stand to be corrected - but I don't think Strathayr is a go-to for every day training purposes.  Rather a raceday surface.

Agree. Don't think you can have 1000 horses going round on it every morning. That said as a more durable racing surface than turf capable of handling 30+ meetings a year it would seem a more sensible option for racing purposes to me for at least summer and shoulder season racing.

Edited May 18, 2020 by curious

[VC!]

12 minutes ago, curious said:

Not the impression I have. WP has fast tracked a DIA review as I understand it. That was already completed last year and put out for consultation. https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Online-Gambling-Consultation/$file/Online-Gambling-in-New-Zealand-Discussion-Document.pdf  Seems to have stalled perhaps understandably. It is designed to align with the racing related reforms in process but not over-rule them and applies to other online gambling e.g.pokies, poker etc. as I read it. That's what it sounded like Winnie was talking about the other day I think. The Racing reform -process has Racefields and the PoC tax to address this as far as I can see. Geo-blocking and credit card restrictions look like they could be an option for the other online gambling restrictions though.

If so, for both, people will likely mostly work around it or quit I'd say as mardi suggests. Think that will take more than a VPN solution though if the former. Probably an address and bank account in the jurisdiction concerned at least. Not sure how they would police that. At best very expensive to do.

 

That’s what  the Goat thought online poker machine etc

Davis thought differently 

However in Australia we have been restricted from accessing the NZ TAB

[mardigras]

Just now, VC! said:

That’s what  the Goat thought online poker machine etc

Davis thought differently 

However in Australia we have been restricted from accessing the NZ TAB

That's done by NZ TAB from my understanding.

[VC!]

25 minutes ago, mardigras said:

That's done by NZ TAB from my understanding.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/96829953/betting-on-nz-tab-is-outlawed-in-australia

[mardigras]

11 minutes ago, VC! said:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/96829953/betting-on-nz-tab-is-outlawed-in-australia

No doubt. I was referring to who put the block in place. Which is the NZ TAB (based on being in agreement with Australian law). So is NZ going to ask the bookies to do the same based on NZ law - and who's going to check compliance?

Edited May 18, 2020 by mardigras

[VC!]

29 minutes ago, mardigras said:

. So is NZ going to ask the bookies to do the same based on NZ law - and who's going to check compliance?

That might be question to ask the people who might be wanting to push it through if that’s the actual case?

[mardigras]

Just now, VC! said:

That might be question to ask the people who might be wanting to push it through if that’s the actual case?

Otherwise they will have to block from NZ ISPs. 

I ask because originally they were investigating a PoC tax - and they were concerned about how to check compliance. Essentially expecting the off-shore companies to comply with NZ law, when they don't really have to.

Either way, it's a knee jerk reaction - and a poor decision. So no surprises there.

[Hesi]

 

 

40m betting platform, plus $17m more every year - and now we can’t even afford the lollies

By Barry Lichter • 17 May 2020

The TAB spent tens of millions of dollars on its new fixed odds betting platform - and now can’t afford to get the best out of it.

When the then New Zealand Racing Board approved a $40 million spend its strategy was to achieve product parity with its international competitors.

It believed unless it offered the same variety of new bet types and options to its growing number of sports punters, they’d spend their money elsewhere.

But the TAB didn’t just borrow money from the bank to build a website with those features, it locked itself into a crippling ongoing annual cost of $17.3 million for 10 years to keep the lollies coming.

The fixed odds platform is centrally controlled by the London-based company Scientific Games Digital, the new owners of OpenBet, which offers a suite of digital gaming, lottery and sports betting content.

Every 12 weeks it releases new products driven by a two month pipeline. The TAB gets to see the pipeline and has the option to take or leave new products as there are no direct costs.

However, the integration and testing costs fall to the TAB which must be able to respond to the 12 week cycles.

The trouble is, the TAB cannot now even afford that process - it was only three days away from insolvency with $26 million in outstanding bills when the Government announced its $72.5 million bailout package last week.

And in its cost-cutting blueprint for the future, the Racing Industry Transition Agency stipulates there will be “minimal OpenBet integration”.

“While we recognise that continued investment in product development is critical to delivering future revenue growth, it will have to be at a reduced level.”

Only the highest priority and highest value products are to be pursued. The ‘nice to haves’ and even ‘must haves’ are unlikely to be delivered, it says.

The Racing Industry Transition Agency, which has inherited this mess, also has the ability to develop its own products and features for the New Zealand market. It gets feedback from its elite customer managers and its small customer insight teams who do monthly surveys.

But RITA says there will now have to be “increased dependency on SGD for core product development, particularly in their areas of strength like sport.”

So the bank loan busting website, designed to keep the sports betting market “vibrant and current” with betting on tens of thousands of events around the world, is all but stalled.

And the racing industry’s stakeholders are the ones suffering.

* The TAB has spent a fortune promoting sports betting even though its profit margins are much lower. In the performance and efficiency audit of September, 2019, recommended in the Messara report, RITA was advised that moving as many customers as possible into racing betting was critical for its long term viability.

* RITAs ability to offer new digital products is limited by regulation, which the Racing Reform Bill No. 2 presently before Parliament, addresses. The new products range from features like in-race betting through to completely new products like virtual casinos.

[mardigras]

Just compounding the poor decision making. Over the years, I struggle to actually be able to come up with a major decision they have made, that has made any positive difference (apart from things like getting duty relief, and even then, they just waste it).

[Globederby19]

5 hours ago, VC! said:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/96829953/betting-on-nz-tab-is-outlawed-in-australia

I stand to be corrected on this and things may have changed, but a year ago when visiting my son in Melbourne he showed me a way to circumvent the system tricking it into thinking you were somewhere other than where you really were. I managed to place a bet on our TAB. He is very clever technically speaking , but has anyone else been able to do this ??.

[mardigras]

13 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

I stand to be corrected on this and things may have changed, but a year ago when visiting my son in Melbourne he showed me a way to circumvent the system tricking it into thinking you were somewhere other than where you really were. I managed to place a bet on our TAB. He is very clever technically speaking , but has anyone else been able to do this ??.

Yes globe, a few options. The most simple Is to use a VPN where you choose the connection point that is in a country that has the allowable access. So connect to a VPN provider that has a host in NZ (from Australia for example), and connect through to NZ TAB. They will think you are coming from New Zealand and allow you access.

If they closed Australian sites to New Zealand based people, you do the reverse - connect to a VPN host in Australia (whilst in NZ) and connect to the service in Australia that would otherwise be blocked.

If it is the host that is blocking, they can also block IP ranges they know are coming from VPN hosts. Depends on what lengths they will go to prevent out of country access. So that can be a bit of an issue to get around.

Edited May 18, 2020 by mardigras

[LookingForValue]

VPN's you can try for free with a trial.

https://www.top10vpn.com/top10/free-trials/?v=spaced&bsid=c14se1kw303&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI95XGz_686QIVSQVgCh203w-TEAAYAyAAEgIss_D_BwE

[Midnight Caller]

With so much talk of who to blame for all the goings on within the industry, can we have one of those "Mardigraph" specials! Pyramid style for over the last say 20 years. A pyramid for each new leader over that time and who all these respective departments report too including the captain,to try and put things into perspective. 

Greatly appreciated. 

[Freda]

With all this crap going on,  I think about owners.   I know we talk about dropping stakes and costs etc. which make it all uneconomic, and many will reconsider their involvement.

Hard to blame them.  It's my livelihood - albeit a very modest one - and I'm thinking hard all the time about how I can trim costs further, for both clients, and me, so I can keep head above water.

But, historically, racing is a rich man's hobby.  Not a business, but something one does with spare money.  Like an ocean-going yacht,  or a Ferrari in your garage.

British racing isn't overly well-endowed with stakemoney...but it seems to be well managed and the prestige and tradition inherent is immense.  The oil men don't race there because of the stakemoney.  They don't need it.  But a classic winner is what makes it all worth while and the respect gained from such a success,  gratifying.

How on earth can a wealthy person have any respect for these clowns here?  Most - apart from those with inherited money - have built up businesses, managed assets wisely, worked hard so they can have some disposable.  There must be so many now stunned with the developments of this last few weeks.    Apart from the wise few who have seen this happening,  most will have assumed that things will trundle on much as always.   The incompetence now evident at all levels is astounding.    It will be interesting - IMO - to see if there is suddenly a greater fallout than seen already.

 

[mardigras]

18 minutes ago, Freda said:

But, historically, racing is a rich man's hobby.  Not a business, but something one does with spare money.  Like an ocean-going yacht,  or a Ferrari in your garage.

It probably still is. But you have the other side where you have the professional aspects of training/riding etc. The shift away from prestige to economic recovery means the books don't balance. There is only so much cost cutting you can do from a business point of view - and now that owners want more of a return, the two don't align. Getting the alignment back won't happen under the current model or the proposed one imo.

This won't help our situation, but is there anything stopping a club (such as Foxton), getting out of any alignment with NZTR, and just being a racing club and running club days it organises by itself (no betting). Just horse people, with their horses, riders and run events for ribbons (or donated cups etc). With a feed and a few beers. Top end thoroughbreds may not be part of that of course - but a means to bring like minded people back to grassroots of racing.