All things Covid and Political discussion .........Be Kind

[pete]

15 minutes ago, Hesi said:

What was not reported about Hendy's modeling, was at 85% the fig drops to about one third and at 90% it is just over 100, so perhaps it is the press that are scaremongering by selective reporting of his modelling

Sorry Alan but Hendy is not a believable source of information.

I can't recall anything he's predicted actually turning out to be correct.

Maybe he has a future as a climate catastrophe predictor.

 

[Hesi]

7 minutes ago, pete said:

Sorry Alan but Hendy is not a believable source of information.

I can't recall anything he's predicted actually turning out to be correct.

Maybe he has a future as a climate catastrophe predictor.

 

Didn't say he was, just that the press selectively reported his modelling to sensationalize

[Hesi]

Brent, the mystery ingredient is Water

From the Pfizer FDA package

Inactive Ingredients
Ingredient Name	Strength
ALC-0159 (UNII: PJH39UMU6H)
ALC-0315 (UNII: AVX8DX713V)
POTASSIUM CHLORIDE (UNII: 660YQ98I10)
MONOBASIC POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE (UNII: 4J9FJ0HL51)
SODIUM CHLORIDE (UNII: 451W47IQ8X)
SODIUM PHOSPHATE, DIBASIC, DIHYDRATE (UNII: 94255I6E2T)
SUCROSE (UNII: C151H8M554)
1,2-DISTEAROYL-SN-GLYCERO-3-PHOSPHOCHOLINE (UNII: 043IPI2M0K)
CHOLESTEROL (UNII: 97C5T2UQ7J)
WATER (UNII: 059QF0KO0R)

FAAXl4LFAAXl4LVkAoOHMg.jfifVkAoOHMg.jfif

[Hesi]

It's water, and it is clearly in the Pfizer submission to the FDA, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant

[Globederby19]

On 9/24/2021 at 8:21 PM, Maximus said:

Rees ...go get a couple of jabs, please. If not for yourself, then for your nearest and dearest.

Sorry Max but my nearest and dearest wouldn't go near it either. In fact my whole family (4 children and 9 grandkids )wont have a bar of it, including their spouses. Two words this time . Get stuffed. No offence.

[pete]

1 hour ago, Globederby19 said:

Sorry Max but my nearest and dearest wouldn't go near it either. In fact my whole family (4 children and 9 grandkids )wont have a bar of it, including their spouses. Two words this time . Get stuffed. No offence.

Interesting Rees. My best friend is also staunchly opposed which is all good with me. It's her choice.

My big question  is why? Not trying to argue here I'd just love to hear your reasoning.

Personally I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I mainly got it for selfish reasons because I can see that overseas travel will be a problem without it.

 

[Hesi]

12 minutes ago, pete said:

Interesting Rees. My best friend is also staunchly opposed which is all good with me. It's her choice.

My big question  is why? Not trying to argue here I'd just love to hear your reasoning.

Personally I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I mainly got it for selfish reasons because I can see that overseas travel will be a problem without it.

 

Out of interest Pete, why is your best friend opposed

[Maximus]

1 hour ago, Globederby19 said:

Sorry Max but my nearest and dearest wouldn't go near it either. In fact my whole family (4 children and 9 grandkids )wont have a bar of it, including their spouses. Two words this time . Get stuffed. No offence.

Well, Max respects your right to say no. And while Covid does not have the mortality rate of, say, Ebola or smallpox or polio or cholera or yellow fever, I do wonder of you and your rellies would be lining up for a vaccine if any of those reared their ugly heads in this country.

[Globederby19]

27 minutes ago, pete said:

Interesting Rees. My best friend is also staunchly opposed which is all good with me. It's her choice.

My big question  is why? Not trying to argue here I'd just love to hear your reasoning.

Personally I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I mainly got it for selfish reasons because I can see that overseas travel will be a problem without it.

 

To be honest the main reason is I don't trust it. We have trolled for real info on it and the facts don't suggest that it is safe, lack of anecdotal information on long term effects etc. My kids were taught critical thinking,and passed that down, and as an example my granddaughter in Wgtn doing a double masters in bio-chemistry thinks you are all mad sticking an untested drug in your bodys. Hey, your choice, but don't make second class citizens out of us that choose not to. The protests in Melbourne are evidence enough of the populace that has had enough of the madness, lockdowns , forced vaccinations et  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Maximus said:

Well, Max respects your right to say no. And while Covid does not have the mortality rate of, say, Ebola or smallpox or polio or cholera or yellow fever, I do wonder of you and your rellies would be lining up for a vaccine if any of those reared their ugly heads in this country.

Max, some of my kids live overseas, Australia , and no they probably wouldn't but it would be a case by case scenario.  I did have a polio vaccine as a kid. 

[Hesi]

34 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

To be honest the main reason is I don't trust it. We have trolled for real info on it and the facts don't suggest that it is safe, lack of anecdotal information on long term effects etc. My kids were taught critical thinking,and passed that down, and as an example my granddaughter in Wgtn doing a double masters in bio-chemistry thinks you are all mad sticking an untested drug in your bodys. Hey, your choice, but don't make second class citizens out of us that choose not to. The protests in Melbourne are evidence enough of the populace that has had enough of the madness, lockdowns , forced vaccinations et  

 

 

Max, some of my kids live overseas, Australia , and no they probably wouldn't but it would be a case by case scenario.  I did have a polio vaccine as a kid. 

But it is tested, it has been through the FDA's new drug testing regime that all drugs must go though, and given full approval.  I posted this before, but that submission was 340,000 pages.

Sorry, but if we can't trust that, then what can we trust.

 

[Maximus]

I understand the reluctance on account of the speed with which the vaccine was 'tested' and potential long-term damage but the alternative is for our health system to be overwhelmed by too many very sick people needing ventilators at the same time = large number of deaths. The Pfizer vaccine is no 'silver bullet' against Covid but results show it significantly reduces the likelihood of hospitalisation and/or ICU care and/or death from Covid and/or illnesses aggravated by Covid.

I was slow on the uptake for the jabs, but did it primarily to assist other people I know who are either older and/or more vulnerable because of asthma/COPD/emphysema etc  - if they got Covid from me, I'd be appalled.

[Globederby19]

13 hours ago, Hesi said:

But it is tested, it has been through the FDA's new drug testing regime that all drugs must go though, and given full approval.  I posted this before, but that submission was 340,000 pages.

Sorry, but if we can't trust that, then what can we trust.

 

Really. Do you not understand that the drug the FDA approved was not the Pfizer vaccine, America was duped, the actual vaccine was another one but they switched to get it over the line . And under law in the States you can refuse to be vaccinated . I shall post some facts soon.

Listen ,have a contact in ICU in Auckland(doctor) who has evidence the vaccine is causing myocardic problems , and thrombic blood clotting,blood cells sticking together as the vaccine changes the electrical polarity between them so they stack up like coins placed in piles., this also in Europe with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and you will not hear about the adverse effect because the Govt stifles the media and this totalitarian govt is using scare tactic,s and his job is on the line if he says anything public. 

My granddaughters friend at Uni went into anaphylactic shock after his jab, my Real estate freind did the same, and I have anecdotal evidence from a naturopath friend in Tauranga for numerous other cases that go unreported.

My heartfelt  plea to anyone on here is to not put your future health at risk, because no matter what the FDA says has been tested ,it hasn't over any period of time. 

I reiterate, you are playing Russian roulette with your lives .

11 hours ago, Maximus said:

if they got Covid from me,

Max, your viral load will be exactly the same whether vaccinated or not. You then become the silent killer for me ,the unvaccinated, because you can still transmit the virus. Remember we were told "vaccinate "to stop the spread . What a load of cobblers. Misinformation .

[Hesi]

24 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

Really. Do you not understand that the drug the FDA approved was not the Pfizer vaccine, America was duped, the actual vaccine was another one but they switched to get it over the line . And under law in the States you can refuse to be vaccinated . I shall post some facts soon.

Listen ,have a contact in ICU in Auckland(doctor) who has evidence the vaccine is causing myocardic problems , and thrombic blood clotting,blood cells sticking together as the vaccine changes the electrical polarity between them so they stack up like coins placed in piles., this also in Europe with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and you will not hear about the adverse effect because the Govt stifles the media and this totalitarian govt is using scare tactic,s and his job is on the line if he says anything public. 

My granddaughters friend at Uni went into anaphylactic shock after his jab, my Real estate freind did the same, and I have anecdotal evidence from a naturopath friend in Tauranga for numerous other cases that go unreported.

My heartfelt  plea to anyone on here is to not put your future health at risk, because no matter what the FDA says has been tested ,it hasn't over any period of time. 

I reiterate, you are playing Russian roulette with your lives .

Max, your viral load will be exactly the same whether vaccinated or not. You then become the silent killer for me ,the unvaccinated, because you can still transmit the virus. Remember we were told "vaccinate "to stop the spread . What a load of cobblers. Misinformation .

The law, Bill Of Rights Article 11, is the same in NZ, cannot be questioned

 

 

[pete]

29 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

Really. Do you not understand that the drug the FDA approved was not the Pfizer vaccine, America was duped, the actual vaccine was another one but they switched to get it over the line . And under law in the States you can refuse to be vaccinated . I shall post some facts soon.

Listen ,have a contact in ICU in Auckland(doctor) who has evidence the vaccine is causing myocardic problems , and thrombic blood clotting,blood cells sticking together as the vaccine changes the electrical polarity between them so they stack up like coins placed in piles., this also in Europe with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and you will not hear about the adverse effect because the Govt stifles the media and this totalitarian govt is using scare tactic,s and his job is on the line if he says anything public. 

My granddaughters friend at Uni went into anaphylactic shock after his jab, my Real estate freind did the same, and I have anecdotal evidence from a naturopath friend in Tauranga for numerous other cases that go unreported.

My heartfelt  plea to anyone on here is to not put your future health at risk, because no matter what the FDA says has been tested ,it hasn't over any period of time. 

I reiterate, you are playing Russian roulette with your lives .

Max, your viral load will be exactly the same whether vaccinated or not. You then become the silent killer for me ,the unvaccinated, because you can still transmit the virus. Remember we were told "vaccinate "to stop the spread . What a load of cobblers. Misinformation .

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I'd appreciate it if you could provide some evidence to back up your claim about the Pfizer vaccine being switched. 

[Globederby19]

When the US Food and Drug Admin announced AUG23 it had granted full approval to the first Covid "vaccine" under the brand name COMINARTY, the mainstream media immediately ran with the narrative.

Joe Biden jumped in front of a microphone and told buisneses they needed to step up the mandating of vaccines for their employees.  Dr Anthony Fauci told national media outlets he expected a whole host of new mandates to be fuelled by the "approval"of the Pfizer jab.

Thereis only one problem. The approval given by the FDA was not for the Pfizer jab currently available in the USA. The devil is in the details. Some of us weren't fooled.

FDA "playing bait and switch" with Americans, tricking them into believing shots currently being offered have been granted full approval,when they HAVE NOT.

The most respected legal firm in the country issued a press release.

"  The Food and Drug Admin has done a bait and switch by announcing it approved its first COVID19 vaccine in order to push the "vaccine "mandates and protect the Pfizer pharmaceutical company from legal liability. However there is no fully licensed Covid shot on the United States market.

Albeit confusing and probably intentionally so, this summarises the current status of the Pfizer /Bio technic shots.

1   All existing Pfizer vials (in the hundreds of millions )remain under the federal Emergency Use Authorisation. (EUA), meaning people have the option to accept or refuse.

2  The third or (booster) Pfizer shot is identical to the above and remains under the EAU with limited use to certain categories of people.

3 BioNTech received FDA approval for people ages 16 and above under the name COMIRNATY, but there are no COMIRNATY doses available in the USA.

4  In other words .There is currently NO FDA approved COVID!( injection available in the USA. Every Covid shot in America remains under EAU law and thus people have the option to accept or refuse them.

5  Even when an FDA approved Covid shot becomes available ,individuals are protected by Federal law and many States laws from being forced to get these shots, on Religious or Conscience grounds.

On August 23 the FDA issued two seperate letters for two separate injections. There are now two legally distinct (Pfizer vs BioNTech),but otherwise identical products.

EUA-approved Covid shots have a liability shield under the 2005 Public Readiness And Preparedness Act,so Vaccine manufacturers ,distributors, providers and Govt planners are IMMUNE from liability. So lawsuits are a waste of time  from injured people as none have ever succeeded.

That means people must be told the risks and benefits ,and they have the right to decline a medication that is not fully licensed. The Federal Emergency Use Authorisation Law and the FDA state unequivocally that each person has the option to accept or decline the shots. In addition to Federal Law, the FDA includes the "NUREMBURG CODE' and Helsinki Declaration on its website, emphasizing the fact that people cannot be forced to take "Experimental "drugs without their full consent.

The letter  to Pfizer affirms FDA.s approval for individuals 16 yrs and over.

This letter does not affirm its use for 12 to 15 yr olds, nor any booster for anyone.

Regarding the Comirnaty Injection ,the FDA admits .

"We have determined that an analysis of spontaneous post marketing adverse events reported under section 505(k)(1) of the FDCA will not be sufficient to asses KNOWN  adverse serious risks of  Myocarditis and pericarditis and identify an unexpected serious risk of subclinical myocarditis"

Therefore follow up studies will be required with children 6 mnths to 15 yrs as well as 6 studies for up to 5 yrs regarding the adverse effects of myocarditis and pericarditis. 

IN ADDITION THE FDA BYPASSED AND DISREGARDED THE NORMAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND PUBLIC COMMENT PROCESS FOR THIS LICENCE.

TO SUMMARISE .

The FDA has apparently tried to deceive people by issuing its two confusing letters without proper explanation. Despite the FDA,s slight of hand , there is currently no FDA approved Covid shot available in the USA. Even if there were an FDA approved Covid shot , people still may request that employers ,schools, military, refuse the vaccine ."  End

It begs the question here when vaccine passports are  mandated (maybe) here where this unlicensed vaccine lies within our own legal frame work. Food for though and possible legal challenges.

 

 

[Globederby19]

34 minutes ago, pete said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I'd appreciate it if you could provide some evidence to back up your claim about the Pfizer vaccine being switched. 

Hope that helps Pete. Not to many others on here trying to project another view on this whole thing. 

Now can we get back to what we all LOVE.   RACING

[Hesi]

Yes

[mardigras]

1 hour ago, Globederby19 said:

Listen ,have a contact in ICU in Auckland(doctor) who has evidence the vaccine is causing myocardic problems 

My heartfelt  plea to anyone on here is to not put your future health at risk, because no matter what the FDA says has been tested ,it hasn't over any period of time. 

I reiterate, you are playing Russian roulette with your lives .

Line 1 above: I've seen it mentioned many times about the possible side effects. I don't think they are hidden.

Line 2 above: No vaccine has been tested over any "decent" period of time when it is released. Developed vaccines effectively use humans as guinea pigs for testing. Then the early recipients are the ongoing guinea pigs. I guess one would have to ask, at which point are the guinea pigs, no longer guinea pigs. If we're talking long term side effects, what's that, 30 - 50 years? I guess all vaccines are being applied to humans as guinea pigs within the first 50 years of use. I expect you've received vaccines that were developed and released less than 50 years before you received it. How did you evaluate the possible long term impacts? Maybe they are still to happen.

Line 3 above: I doubt it in regards russian roulette. But then I don't really care that much either. I'm not getting any younger, if I die from the vaccine, it's just another potential way to die - it's going to happen and I'm not that fussed about that choice versus a heap of others. It's not something I get hung up on. I'm not stopping from using some technology that is out there because someone thinks you'll get cancer from it, and we'll only know 30 years from now - such as in the old use of asbestos. Worrying about what might happen due to something unknown, 30 years down the track seems a pretty odd way to lead what is a very limited life anyway.

Personally, I think the vaccines are about as useful as the flu vaccine. They all have side effects, and those side effects can be severe. I'm not pro or anti vaccine. It's just a tool being used by governments to coerce people down a path. It may have some health benefits, they may even only be short term ones. It may have health risks, they may even be long term ones.

I didn't get it because I thought it would protect me from severe illness if I got Covid.

Equally, I wouldn't not take it because of the risk of severe side effects or unknown long term effects.

I haven't seen anything that makes me keen to take it or not take it, from an illness perspective.

Simply put, I doubt it will deliver what the pro-vax people want/claim And I doubt it will deliver what the anti-vax people want/claim.

With just about anything you do, you are taking a risk. You could die from taking it and you could die from not. The likely government enforced rules around the world, make me believe the non health based benefits of taking it will far outweigh the risks of taking it.

I haven't seen any benefits of not taking it to counter the non health based risks of not taking it.

[pete]

10 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Line 1 above: I've seen it mentioned many times about the possible side effects. I don't think they are hidden.

Line 2 above: No vaccine has been tested over any "decent" period of time when it is released. Developed vaccines effectively use humans as guinea pigs for testing. Then the early recipients are the ongoing guinea pigs. I guess one would have to ask, at which point are the guinea pigs, no longer guinea pigs. If we're talking long term side effects, what's that, 30 - 50 years? I guess all vaccines are being applied to humans as guinea pigs within the first 50 years of use. I expect you've received vaccines that were developed and released less than 50 years before you received it. How did you evaluate the possible long term impacts? Maybe they are still to happen.

Line 3 above: I doubt it in regards russian roulette. But then I don't really care that much either. I'm not getting any younger, if I die from the vaccine, it's just another potential way to die - it's going to happen and I'm not that fussed about that choice versus a heap of others. It's not something I get hung up on. I'm not stopping from using some technology that is out there because someone thinks you'll get cancer from it, and we'll only know 30 years from now - such as in the old use of asbestos. Worrying about what might happen due to something unknown, 30 years down the track seems a pretty odd way to lead what is a very limited life anyway.

Personally, I think the vaccines are about as useful as the flu vaccine. They all have side effects, and those side effects can be severe. I'm not pro or anti vaccine. It's just a tool being used by governments to coerce people down a path. It may have some health benefits, they may even only be short term ones. It may have health risks, they may even be long term ones.

I didn't get it because I thought it would protect me from severe illness if I got Covid.

Equally, I wouldn't not take it because of the risk of severe side effects or unknown long term effects.

I haven't seen anything that makes me keen to take it or not take it, from an illness perspective.

Simply put, I doubt it will deliver what the pro-vax people want/claim And I doubt it will deliver what the anti-vax people want/claim.

With just about anything you do, you are taking a risk. You could die from taking it and you could die from not. The likely government enforced rules around the world, make me believe the non health based benefits of taking it will far outweigh the risks of taking it.

I haven't seen any benefits of not taking it to counter the non health based risks of not taking it.

A lot of common sense in that post Marty. Thanks.

[ngakonui grass]

How were the Govt going to eliminate covid if as she said today that it would be unlikely that they could/would make the vaccine compulsory.

[mardigras]

5 minutes ago, ngakonui grass said:

How were the Govt going to eliminate covid if as she said today that it would be unlikely that they could/would make the vaccine compulsory.

They've been making it up as they go along. The elimination plan has become the vaccination plan. At which point elimination will be out the door - and a reliance on the vaccination keeping hospitalisations to a manageable level. That plan doesn't require compulsory vaccinations.

When that potentially fails, they'll make up a new plan.

Edited September 27, 2021 by mardigras

[Globederby19]

Fair cop Mardy, but there is one word in this piece that should have set alarm bells ringing . 

"Known".  They knew beforehand .

Everyman to himself, but that whole piece opens up a Pandora's box in regard to ones rights regarding an unlicensed Vaccine. How our legal system deals with it should it rear its head will be interesting. 

At least we have got people thinking about it, and it is not my intention to batter someone into thinking differently. 

Like you I have kids in Australia, so depending on which way it goes I am going to have to make a choice eventually. Hopefully the  Deng Xiaoping's of our authoritarian Govts will have been booted out. 

Don't hold your breath. 

[mardigras]

I don't see the vaccine as a compulsory thing. Take it or leave it. That's how I would have approached it from a governance perspective anyway. Just like the flu.

[Hesi]

Norway is going to be interesting to follow

Everything removed after 561 days of various restrictions

No proof of vaccination required

Norwegians free to travel elsewhere in Europe

70% fully vaccinated

About the same population size as NZ

85/million death rate.

Initial reaction was total pandemonium at the freedom, but that will pass quickly

[Hesi]

Also Portugal, that is 83.4% fully vaccinated, and most restrictions have been lifted, other than masks in enclosed areas

Portugal had been hard hit, where the deaths are 18,000, or 1800/mil