Globederby19 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Maximus said: seeing people break the rules and/or LAW and get away with it A better question would be how did the system fail and let this happen?. There is a disconnect between the bureaucracy implementing rules and the reality of enforcing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: A better question would be how did the system fail and let this happen?. There is a disconnect between the bureaucracy implementing rules and the reality of enforcing them. This gummit is soft on crime; cuddling up to gangs and not showing any consequences for beaches of Covid regulations. If there were significant penalties for breaches (eg the Wanaka/Blenheim/Northland skylarks) there would be fewer of them. The two Chinese 'sex workers' are apparently allowed to mosey on back to Auckland in their own time. They should be in JAIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 41 minutes ago, Maximus said: This gummit is soft on crime; cuddling up to gangs and not showing any consequences for beaches of Covid regulations. If there were significant penalties for breaches (eg the Wanaka/Blenheim/Northland skylarks) there would be fewer of them. The two Chinese 'sex workers' are apparently allowed to mosey on back to Auckland in their own time. They should be in JAIL. There is no other option at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 On 10/15/2021 at 1:06 PM, karrotsishere said: In Auckland now can give you tip. As star witness, have not seen many peeps signing into places anymore. At level 4 Yes at level 3 no. Eg supermarket, diary, food takeout shops. Same thing also re now at supermarket peeps are just like all everywhere, like don't need to have a trolley can just stroll on in. And go shopping. Doesn't surprise me in the slightest cases are going up. Well yesterday there was 1 place that was making EVERYONE sign in. So its varying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) recent stats from Victoria ... ('bold' bits by Max just trying to prove a point to the vaccine-hesitant and anti-vax brigade) There are currently 798 people in hospital, with 163 people in intensive care, and 160 of those are on a ventilator. Of those people in hospital on Friday, 89 percent were not fully vaccinated and of those in intensive care, 96 percent were not double jabbed. Edited October 17, 2021 by Maximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Maximus said: 'bold' bits by Max just trying to prove a point to the vaccine-hesitant and Give it up Max. The only point you are making in skewed stats is that you are one of the most indoctrinated people on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I'm not going to close this down but please remember to be respectful to other member's viewpoints on this. It's a hugely contententious area and whilst you may feel you are right others may disagree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I'm not indoctrinated, I'm no sheep, I have a relatively high IQ, I've even been involved with registering drugs with Medsafe, pharmaceutical audits and developing vallidated foolproof manufacturing systems. I can say with a 100% degree of assurance, that the only people who are indoctrinated(brainwashed) are, the anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. You know, the amateurs that think they know better than the overwhelming weight of science on this, who cherry pick stuff off the internet, usually from nameless, faceless people, with unknown credentials and motives, that suits their pre-determined mindset. Science incidentally, that in case they had not noticed, had brought them all the sorts of freedoms, they supposedly hold so dear, and shun when it suits them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlodded Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I didn't watch the TV News this weekend at all, so I hope the USA hasn't declared war on anyone. Not that there is much chance that would make our News these days, but that is another story. My wife banned me, knowing my reaction to watching queues of people lining up getting their prizes and bribes for not doing what the rest did, get their vaccines in the last couple of months when asked to. Instead we reward them. Fantastic. Did you want fries with that.. Everyone had exactly the same chance to book a vaccines when their age group came up and then a 2nd booking to complete the job. But evidently we needed to send the limousines around to 10 Otara St, South Auckland. So more taxes later they are still moaning about having low vaccine rates.... newsflash... look in the mirror and ask why! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, barryb said: You almost had me at the high IQ, I missed the word relatively. The anti’s are stating freedom of choice which is great and I agree with that, but unfortunately they are holding the rest of us to ransom and denying us the same. Get the vax, and stop giving Cindy reasons to inflict left wing control over us. Good to see you getting it right Barry, freedom of choice is baloney when it affects others freedoms Also breakthrough infections(vaccines are not 100%), which are small as a percentage in a population, are more likely to come from unvaccinated people, because they are more likely to have Covid. This guy puts it well Among the unvaccinated, the virus travels unhindered on a highway with multiple off-ramps and refueling stations. In the vaccinated, it gets lost in a maze of dead-end streets and cul-de-sacs. Every so often, it pieces together an escape route, but in most scenarios, it finds itself cut off, and its journey ends. It can go no further. About the author: Craig Spencer is an emergency-medicine physician and director of global health in emergency medicine at New York Presbyterian/Columbia University Medical Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) Terrific posts there by Hesi, Just Plodded and barryb... I find it especially irritating to hear a Maori doctor in Auckland calling for a Level 4 circuit-breaker lockdown, when every eligible individual in this country has had equal opportunity to get vaccinated. Months and months of equal opportunity ... amid wall-to-wall publicity for months. I find it especially annoying that roadblocks are easily set up to 'keep the virus out' of certain isolated areas but none of them (or the DHB) has had the nous to send the mobile vax units in - and do the rounds. Is it surprising that Maori and Pasifika have the lowest, slowest vax rates? I bet all the Indian, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Chinese, Cambodian, Cameroonian, Iraqi and Iranians (workers and refugees who came to NZ with next to nothing) are all double jabbed. Edited October 17, 2021 by Maximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 14 hours ago, Globederby19 said: Give it up Max. The only point you are making in skewed stats is that you are one of the most indoctrinated people on here. mate Max has never been one of the sheeple and never will be. I like to think that the years spent at University and working in the comms/media world taught me how to ask questions. Lots of questions. Truth to tell, I was not among the first to get vaxed (too young!) but did it in JULY to reduce the risk of Covid taking the life or ruining the health of my friends (some of whom are susceptible to respiratory illnesses)' and to do my bit to ease the strain on our health resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Maximus said: Terrific posts there by Hesi, Just Plodded and barryb... I find it especially irritating to hear a Maori doctor in Auckland calling for a Level 4 circuit-breaker lockdown, when every eligible individual in this country has had equal opportunity to get vaccinated. Months and months of equal opportunity ... amid wall-to-wall publicity for months. I find it especially annoying that roadblocks are easily set up to 'keep the virus out' of certain isolated areas but none of them (or the DHB) has had the nous to send the mobile vax units in - and do the rounds. Is it surprising that Maori and Pasifika have the lowest, slowest vax rates? I bet all the Indian, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Chinese, Cambodian, Cameroonian, Iraqi and Iranians (workers and refugees who came to NZ with next to nothing) are all double jabbed. The ethnicity debate is one you can never win. This is one of Ardern's strengths that people don't get. You can't make people do things, you have to gently convince them, even if it takes a Big Mac or 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I think it works both ways. The non vaccinated are also being held to ransom, irrespective of the view of whether a person should get vaccinated or not. I've not got a lot of issues with being held to ransom, which is why I tend to prefer a user pays system. A user pays system largely fixes it. We are too much focused on social welfare and it wouldn't happen here. If a person gets sick, they pay to get treatment. You want/need an ICU bed, pay for it. That would trickle down to health care plans - just like travel insurance. You get asked various health questions, it changes your premium. If you are not vaccinated, your premium goes up. if you don't have health cover, you pay the full price. If you don't have the money, bad luck. Puts less strain on available health services, and if you need more, you are receiving funding due to the user pays aspect. That brings the accountability of people's actions out. You make the choices, you pay for the outcomes of those choices. Just like other forms of insurance - you can self insure if you don't believe the chance of requiring health care is high in relation to the cost. And therefore on the basis you need the care, you know you will have to pay for it. Might sound harsh, but the world is changing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Hesi said: The ethnicity debate is one you can never win. This is one of Ardern's strengths that people don't get. You can't make people do things, you have to gently convince them, even if it takes a Big Mac or 2 ha! You can't make people do things... So, you can't make people present a passport before arriving/exiting a country? You can't make people pay income tax, rates or ACC? You can't make people pay a fee to go to a sports event, concert or enter a museum? What ironic about the 'no jabs for me' brigade is that they and their 'like-minded' buddies are going to be the ones putting the strain on our health resources ..oh, and compromising the treatment scheduke for thie nearest and dearest when they get turned away for elective surgery/cancer scans etc if Covid gets out of control here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, Maximus said: ha! You can't make people do things... So, you can't make people present a passport before arriving/exiting a country? You can't make people pay income tax, rates or ACC? You can't make people pay a fee to go to a sports event, concert or enter a museum? What ironic about the 'no jabs for me' brigade is that they and their 'like-minded' buddies are going to be the ones putting the strain on our health resources ..oh, and compromising the treatment scheduke for thie nearest and dearest when they get turned away for elective surgery/cancer scans etc if Covid gets out of control here. Silly analogy Max Those are all things that are law and where the person must do or the consequence is immediate, totally apparent and enforceable The consequences in your last paragraph are more removed and indirect and less apparent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Maximus said: ha! You can't make people do things... So, you can't make people present a passport before arriving/exiting a country? You can't make people pay income tax, rates or ACC? You can't make people pay a fee to go to a sports event, concert or enter a museum? What ironic about the 'no jabs for me' brigade is that they and their 'like-minded' buddies are going to be the ones putting the strain on our health resources ..oh, and compromising the treatment scheduke for thie nearest and dearest when they get turned away for elective surgery/cancer scans etc if Covid gets out of control here. People don't have to arrive/exit a country People don't have to pay income tax (they may not earn any income) People don't have to attend concerts etc. But you want to make people do something just to continue living in the country. They don't have to do any of the things you mention to continue living in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 A question or two for our noble leaders (TRP peeps feel free to intercede, cos you've got more brains than them): Now that Northland is going back to Level 2 on Wednesday, what measures are in place to prevent more Aucklanders breaking the rules by travelling North without just cause? What consequences will there be for anyone who gets caught breaking these rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 21 hours ago, Hesi said: the anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. Firstly I'm not an anti vaxxer, nor a conspiracy theorist. You choose whatever you want to do with your own body. 21 hours ago, Hesi said: I have a relatively high IQ, Somehow that is relevant, to making informed choices .? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 7 hours ago, Hesi said: Silly analogy Max Those are all things that are law and where the person must do or the consequence is immediate, totally apparent and enforceable The consequences in your last paragraph are more removed and indirect and less apparent Its why John left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 33 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: Its why John left. Is it? I wasn't aware of that. A very ambiguous statement Reece. Care to enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: Its why John left. John Key??? John The Baptist? John, John, the Piper's Son? John Lennon? Edited October 18, 2021 by Maximus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Leave it out Maxi, personal issues here that are better handled in private by Pete and I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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