All things Covid and Political discussion .........Be Kind

[mardigras]

17 minutes ago, Maximus said:

If you can read/interpret a simple graph, this one explains the 'get vaccinated' argument very well. 

If you can't read a graph, allow me to tell you:

nearly all the cases of Covid requiring care/treatment in hospital come from unvaccinated people.

Almost none of the people who have two vaccinations get so sick they require hospital care/treatment.

Simple, really.

Think you're doing yourself and your friends/whanau a favour by NOT getting the jabs? Think again.

It's all the hesitant and anti-vaxers who are causing this unnecessary pain right throughout the country. And if our hospital system ever does fail to cope with the pressure of too many cases all at once, it's not just the Covid patients who will suffer. Anti-vaxers and their whanau who (say) need emergency care in a hospital because of an accident, sudden illness or traumatic injury, you won't be able to ge tthe treatment you need.

So do the right thing now and take a couple of painless jabs for the greater good ..and your own!

MM

 

I'd suggest that is more to do with the community groups / makeup of the group, than the vaccine itself. If it is running largely through family groups etc of non vaccinated families, then the only useful part of that would be around the hospitalisation rate - and then, given the small sample may just be due to the specific people involved.

Not poo-pooing the vaccine, just being careful of what it represents.

[Hesi]

That Worldometer site was good for getting a picture of what was going on in each country.

What adds weight to any data, is sample size, so if the data(as above) is available from each country, if it was brought together as per Worldometer, it would be useful.

I have seen reports from places like Alberta, US and UK, but apart from the Alberta data, it is light on numbers

[Hesi]

Honest John, with regard to your son's reference to thalidomide.

The medical disaster that it was back in the 50's, totally changed the way drugs were tested and evaluated.  Things became so much more sophisticated and extensive.  

I have mentioned on this site before, but the Pfizer submission to the FDA was 330,000 pages, the emergency use submission, a meagre 110,000 pages.  Not to mention the huge amount of ongoing in population monitoring that is happening now

It is why I have a wry smile when people proclaim, that they have to do their own research, which of course they are entitled to do.   

As I understand it, the problem with thalidomide, was that teratogenicity testing(effect on the foetus), was no where near as advanced back in the 50's.  Rats were immune to the teratogenic effects of thalidomide

[von Smallhaussen]

well - what have we learned from this outbreak this week ---

the first 2 escapees across the border from Auckland were the equestrian whose mummy is a court judge and his 'squeeze' the lawyer. Then there was the 2 so called sex workers that went to Northland and then another sex worker and the minder arrested in Wellington. Yesterday another 2 sex workers from Auckland arrested in Blenheim and have until 5pm today to be back in Auckland.

I have learned that the predominant occupation in Auckland is - you guessed it - sex worker!

😜

[Globederby19]

Why do the... #protected, need to be ...#protected,from the #...unprotected , by forcing the #...unprotected to use the #...protection ,that didn't....#protect the ... # protected in the first place ...????

[mardigras]

10 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

Why do the... #protected, need to be ...#protected,from the #...unprotected , by forcing the #...unprotected to use the #...protection ,that didn't....#protect the ... # protected in the first place ...????

Maybe no one is actually protected? It's not a true/false situation.

[Maximus]

its the unprotected that need to be protected from the unprotected cos the unprotected are the ones who are going to need hospital quality care ...

Bloomfield told RNZ that of the 170 people so far hospitalised in the Delta outbreak in Auckland only three had been fully vaccinated.

having said that, an overload of Covid cases in hospitals compromises the care of Covid=protected people who are sick/injured with other things. We may have enough beds but we dont have the trained hospital staff to deal with too muchcvid crap in our hospitals al at the same time. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Maximus

[mardigras]

12 minutes ago, Maximus said:

its the unprotected that need to be protected from the unprotected cos the unprotected are the ones who are going to need hospital quality care ...

Bloomfield told RNZ that of the 170 people so far hospitalised in the Delta outbreak in Auckland only three had been fully vaccinated.

having said that, an overload of Covid cases in hospitals compromises the care of Covid=protected people who are sick/injured with other things. We may have enough beds but we dont have the trained hospital staff to deal with too muchcvid crap in our hospitals al at the same time. 

But that can only lead to recommendations,  not force. Just like doctors will recommend to some patients about getting the flu vaccine.

We don't stop treating flu patients that haven't had the flu vaccine, so we wouldn't want to not treat Covid patients that haven't had a Covid vaccine.

NZ should have been putting programs/money into the things that will make a difference long term. Affordable training programs for medical professions/better wages for the same. Increased capacity to deal with the unwell. This isn't just a current government issue, this has been going on for years.

[Hesi]

2 hours ago, von Smallhaussen said:

well - what have we learned from this outbreak this week ---

the first 2 escapees across the border from Auckland were the equestrian whose mummy is a court judge and his 'squeeze' the lawyer. Then there was the 2 so called sex workers that went to Northland and then another sex worker and the minder arrested in Wellington. Yesterday another 2 sex workers from Auckland arrested in Blenheim and have until 5pm today to be back in Auckland.

I have learned that the predominant occupation in Auckland is - you guessed it - sex worker!

😜

Seems to be quite popular this sex thing, although not mutually exclusive to Auckland, which is proven by your existence VS

[Maximus]

Delta is more virulent than the flu, mate, if you are not vaccinated. I agree with your last remarks re investment in people and the system; its shameful that our system can be in danger of collapse from this outbreak. But until - and unless - the new pill is approved by Medsafe, vaccination is the best way to mitigate the effects of the virus on humans.

its important to respect the rights of people who decline the jabs, but the evidence is clear that the jabs are 90% effective, and will keep most people who get Covid out of hospital, leaving the 'system able to deal with the worst-affected - and they usually have co-morbidities/pre-existing conditions.

[Maximus]

2 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Seems to be quite popular this sex thing, although not mutually exclusive to Auckland, which is proven by your existence VS

Max has a question : why did the two Covid-negative people caught in Blenheim get named and shamed yesterday but the two Covid-positive women who visited Northland didn't?

[mardigras]

5 minutes ago, Maximus said:

Delta is more virulent than the flu, mate, if you are not vaccinated. I agree with your last remarks re investment in people and the system; its shameful that our system can be in danger of collapse from this outbreak. But until - and unless - the new pill is approved by Medsafe, vaccination is the best way to mitigate the effects of the virus on humans.

its important to respect the rights of people who decline the jabs, but the evidence is clear that the jabs are 90% effective, and will keep most people who get Covid out of hospital, leaving the 'system able to deal with the worst-affected - and they usually have co-morbidities/pre-existing conditions.

I don't see that as being a reason to change the rights of an individual. You don't make a second mistake to cover the inadequacies resulting from your first mistake.

So recommendation is fine. What we are seeing is well beyond a recommendation.

[Hesi]

6 minutes ago, Maximus said:

Max has a question : why did the two Covid-negative people caught in Blenheim get named and shamed yesterday but the two Covid-positive women who visited Northland didn't?

Probably business promotion

[Hesi]

Worth a read, from about 2 weeks ago

From a contact in Auckland, I understand all hospitals in Auckland have been briefed to go on a 'war footing' status, in anticipation of the increase in Delta numbers

Covid-19 deaths in US eclipse 700,000 as delta rages

Tammy Webber and Heather Hollingsworth21:28, Oct 02 2021

 

US Covid-19 death toll eclipses 1918 Spanish Flu estimates

The death toll has continued to climb since.

It’s a milestone that by all accounts didn’t have to happen this soon.

The US death toll from Covid-19 eclipsed 700,000 late Friday – a number greater than the population of Boston. The last 100,000 deaths occurred during a time when vaccines – which overwhelmingly prevent deaths, hospitalisations and serious illness – were available to any American over the age of 12.

The milestone is deeply frustrating to doctors, public health officials and the American public, who watched a pandemic that had been easing earlier in the summer take a dark turn. Tens of millions of Americans have refused to get vaccinated, allowing the highly contagious delta variant to tear through the country and send the death toll from 600,000 to 700,000 in 3 1/2 months.

Florida suffered by far the most death of any state during that period, with the virus killing about 17,000 residents since the middle of June. Texas was second with 13,000 deaths. The two states account for 15 per cent of the country's population, but more than 30 per cent of the nation's deaths since the nation crossed the 600,000 threshold.

 

CHARLIE EHLERT/AP

In this image provided by the University of Utah Health, medical professionals look after a Covid-19 patient in the intensive care unit.

 

Dr David Dowdy, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health who has analysed publicly reported state data, said it's safe to say at least 70,000 of the last 100,000 deaths were in unvaccinated people. And of those vaccinated people who died with breakthrough infections, most caught the virus from an unvaccinated person, he said.

 

“If we had been more effective in our vaccination, then I think it’s fair to say, we could have prevented 90 per cent of those deaths,” since mid-June, Dowdy said.

“It’s not just a number on a screen,” Dowdy said. “It’s tens of thousands of these tragic stories of people whose families have lost someone who means the world to them."

Danny Baker is one of them.

 

The 28-year-old seed hauler from Riley, Kansas, contracted Covid-19 over the summer, spent more than a month in the hospital and died September 14. He left behind a wife and a 7-month-old baby girl.

“This thing has taken a grown man, 28-year-old young man, 6′2″, 300-pound man, and took him down like it was nothing,” said his father, 56-year-old JD Baker, of Milford, Kansas. “And so if young people think that they’re still ... protected because of their youth and their strength, it’s not there any more.”

In the early days of the pandemic, Danny Baker, who was a championship trap shooter in high school and loved hunting and fishing, insisted he would be first in line for a vaccine, recalled his mother.

But just as vaccinations opened up to his age group, the US recommended a pause in use of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine to investigate reports of rare but potentially dangerous blood clots. The news frightened him, as did information swirling online that the vaccine could harm fertility, though medical experts say there’s no biological reason the shots would affect fertility.

CHARLIE EHLERT/AP

The US Covid-19 death toll has eclipsed 700,000.

His wife also was breastfeeding, so they decided to wait. Health experts now say breastfeeding mothers should get the vaccine for their own protection and that it may even provide some protection for their babies through antibodies passed along in breastmilk.

“There’s just a lot of miscommunication about the vaccine,” said his wife, 27-year-old Aubrea Baker, a labour and delivery nurse, adding that her husband's death inspired a Facebook page and at least 100 people to get vaccinated. “It’s not that we weren’t going to get it. We just hadn’t gotten it yet.”

When deaths surpassed 600,000 in mid-June, vaccinations already were driving down caseloads, restrictions were being lifted and people looked forward to life returning to normal over the summer. Deaths per day in the US had plummeted to an average of around 340, from a high of over 3000 in mid-January. Soon afterward, health officials declared it a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

 

 

 

But as the delta variant swept the country, caseloads and deaths soared – especially among the unvaccinated and younger people, with hospitals around the country reporting dramatic increases in admissions and deaths among people under 65. They also reported breakthrough infections and deaths, though at far lower rates, prompting efforts to provide booster shots to vulnerable Americans.

Now, daily deaths are averaging about 1900 a day. Cases have started to fall from their highs in September but there is fear that the situation could worsen in the winter months when colder weather drives people inside.

Almost 65 per cent of Americans have had at least one dose of vaccine, while about 56 per cent are fully vaccinated, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

But millions are either refusing or still on the fence because of fear, misinformation and political beliefs. Health care workers report being threatened by patients and community members who don't believe Covid-19 is real.

JOHN LOCHER/AP

Vaccination is by far the most effective way people can protect themselves against Covid-19.

The first known deaths from the virus in the US were in early February 2020. It took four months to reach the first 100,000 deaths. During the most lethal phase of the disaster, in the winter of 2020-21, it took just over a month to go from 300,000 to 400,000 deaths.

The US reached 500,000 deaths in mid-February, when the country was still in the midst of the winter surge and vaccines were only available to a limited number of people. The death toll stood about 570,000 in April when every adult American became eligible for shots.

“I remember when we broke that 100,000-death mark, people just shook their heads and said ‘Oh, my god,’” said Dr Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association. “Then we said, ‘Are we going to get to 200,000?’ Then we kept looking at 100,000-death marks,” and finally surpassed the estimated 675,000 American deaths from the 1918-19 flu pandemic.

 

 

“And we’re not done yet,” Benjamin said.

The deaths during the delta surge have been unrelenting in hotspots in the South. Almost 79 people out of every 100,000 people in Florida have died of Covid since mid-June, the highest rate in the nation.

Amanda Alexander, a Covid-19 ICU nurse at Georgia’s Augusta University Medical Center, said Thursday that she'd had a patient die on each of her previous three shifts.

 

“I’ve watched a 20-year-old die. I’ve watched 30-year-olds, 40-year-olds,” with no pre-existing conditions that would have put them at greater risk, she said. “Ninety-nine per cent of our patients are unvaccinated. And it’s just so frustrating because the facts just don’t lie and we’re seeing it every day.”

 

AP

[mardigras]

All well and good Hesi. But that is the choice being made. And in the future, it is going to get more and more difficult to influence people around what might be the supposed preferred choice.

[Hesi]

Yes, you only have to listen to Sandra Gourdie to realise that

[karrotsishere]

In Auckland now can give you tip. As star witness, have not seen many  peeps signing into places anymore. At level 4 Yes at level 3 no. Eg supermarket, diary, food takeout shops. 

Same thing also re now at supermarket peeps are just like all everywhere, like don't need to have a trolley can just stroll on in. And go shopping. Doesn't surprise me in the slightest cases are going up. 

[Hesi]

Yep, I've noticed that as well

[Globederby19]

4 hours ago, Maximus said:

its important to respect the rights of people who decline the jabs,

Thanks Maxi, for a minute there I thought you had given up on me..

[Maximus]

30 minutes ago, Globederby19 said:

Thanks Maxi, for a minute there I thought you had given up on me..

would never do that, old son...whats your view on what to do with non-vaccinated people who get a bad dose of the Covid? Put 'em at the front of the treatment queue? Or at the back, behind people needing operations/scans for things like cancer? Treat em at home or clog up the hospitals/stress out the nurses and doctors ...?

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Maximus

[Maximus]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

Yep, I've noticed that as well

i dont blame Aucklanders who've done the sensible thing for nearly 10 weeks and are heartily sick of seeing people break the rules and/or LAW and get away with it. From the maskless groups gathering at the Domain with Mr Tamaki and his cult lunatics to the Jafa-based harlots spreading their legs germs in Northland after falsifying documents, giving little or no information and still haven't been named or charged with an offence. As for the two tarts in Blenheim, why were they named but not the others?

[Hesi]

1 hour ago, Maximus said:

i dont blame Aucklanders who've done the sensible thing for nearly 10 weeks and are heartily sick of seeing people break the rules and/or LAW and get away with it. From the maskless groups gathering at the Domain with Mr Tamaki and his cult lunatics to the Jafa-based harlots spreading their legs germs in Northland after falsifying documents, giving little or no information and still haven't been named or charged with an offence. As for the two tarts in Blenheim, why were they named but not the others?

Aucklanders should not be getting out much anyway, so it is not a lot to ask to get them to use the app

[von Smallhaussen]

2 hours ago, Maximus said:

i dont blame Aucklanders who've done the sensible thing for nearly 10 weeks and are heartily sick of seeing people break the rules and/or LAW and get away with it. From the maskless groups gathering at the Domain with Mr Tamaki and his cult lunatics to the Jafa-based harlots spreading their legs germs in Northland after falsifying documents, giving little or no information and still haven't been named or charged with an offence. As for the two tarts in Blenheim, why were they named but not the others?

Gluteus - was that their real names or was it really wun hung lo 😜

[Globederby19]

3 hours ago, Maximus said:

would never do that, old son...whats your view on what to do with non-vaccinated people

Same view for vaccinated people who get a bad dose of the virus. In an egalitarian society we look after all sick folk regardless of there background or health issues. One could state that obesity and diabetes put a bigger strain on our health system than this will ever do. Obesity wont go away will it?. 

I try to stay out of discussions.  

[Maximus]

20 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said:

Gluteus - was that their real names or was it really wun hung lo 😜

as long as they werent visiting Don Ki Kok i dont mind