mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: This is where it gets tricky with the user pays system . From memory a gentleman in Wgtn (double vac) has contracted Covid. Now if he is sick enough to be hospitalised then he will get free treatment. If he sheds the virus to anyone else ( and the viral load is just as big in vacc as it is in unvacc) and that person is unvaccinated then they are penalised , theoretically. Doesn't make sense to me. In ,as I have stated before in an egalitarian society, we look after all our citizens. Now we know there are parts of Society that abuse their bodys ( drugs ,Alcohol etc)wilfully, and expect to be looked after when it turns to custard. This type of scenario would need monitoring, as it impinges on our basic rights as Human beings. I wouldn't call that penalised, I'd call that life. People inflict things on others all the time. Contagious diseases are passed around all over the place - some people die from them. If they didn't die and you did, are you being penalised - no, as I say, that's just life. People make the choices they make. People should feel more than happy to be accountable for those decisions. it sounds like you aren't wanting to be accountable for the decision you make on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 25 minutes ago, mardigras said: . it sounds like you aren't wanting to be accountable for the decision you make on this. Quite the contrary. Am all to happy to live with my decision, along with thousands of others, including the majority of my family . It is what it is , thats life. Life is full of decisions. Eventually the consequences of those decisions rear their head for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Globederby19 said: Quite the contrary. Am all to happy to live with my decision, along with thousands of others, including the majority of my family . It is what it is , thats life. Life is full of decisions. Eventually the consequences of those decisions rear their head for better or for worse. I'm referring to the user pays aspect - would you be happy to pay for your decision should that have eventuated? From your prior post, it didn't come across that way. So on that, if the government introduced such a system, and a bed was going to cost unvaccinated $1,000 per day. Would you stick with your decision happy to pay, or change your decision? Edited November 19, 2021 by mardigras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Max thinks that there are two 'elephants in the room': the kiddiewinkies who arent/cant be jabbed but will be charging aroung everywhere on holiday or not and passing the virus on ... the adults, vaxed or not, who get Covid and pass it on.. Bottom line? Everyone will have to deal with Covid, vaxed or not, ready or not ..Best thing to do is open up the country in December, scrap MIQ (an expensive and unfair joke) and invest as much as possible into acquiring the equipment and human resources needed to upgrade our health system. Would love to know how prepared' we are /aren't having had 18 months to prepare and most of this year to vaccinate the peeps with a vaccine that may or not be as effective as its touted to be. When all is said and done, Covid is a virulent respiratory illness a la flu/pneumonia. If we protect the peeps most likely to be seriously affected, we're doing well, cos most of the peeps will fend off Covid with their own immunity system...as we do with countless viral afflictions. MM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 hour ago, mardigras said: I'm referring to the user pays aspect - would you be happy to pay for your decision should that have eventuated? From your prior post, it didn't come across that way. So on that, if the government introduced such a system, and a bed was going to cost unvaccinated $1,000 per day. Would you stick with your decision happy to pay, or change your decision? Yes by all means I would . sorry if it came across as different. A risk that has been thought through, and willing to bear the cost if that's what eventuates. What I was alluding to was the anomaly where a vaccinated person sick in hospital at the Govts expense would potentially pass it on to an unvaccinated person and put them in hospital. If you get my drift. Not beyond the realms of possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I think it is going to be a difficult Summer for the country. Covid will spread out across NZ, how many cases per day, who knows, how many deaths, who knows. There will be apprehension initially. There are those in business that will rejoice, those that are resident in each area, maybe not so happy, there will be resentment towards Auckland? If the Herald headline today is anything to go by, the papers will feed on it, and sensationalise it. Northland and Coromandel, maybe a good idea to give it all a miss, till the dust settles. Plenty of nice beaches in or around Auckland Covid 19 Delta outbreak: Northern iwi leaders condemn Auckland border call - 'you may as well send up body bags' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: Yes by all means I would . sorry if it came across as different. A risk that has been thought through, and willing to bear the cost if that's what eventuates. What I was alluding to was the anomaly where a vaccinated person sick in hospital at the Govts expense would potentially pass it on to an unvaccinated person and put them in hospital. If you get my drift. Not beyond the realms of possibility. I don't think it is an anomaly. Given you would be happy to pay, then things aren't a little bit tricky at all then? As I've said all along, I don't think it matters what choice you make and the government shouldn't be so concerned with it. Make it user pays and see how it plays out. Both arguments about the vaccine should be happy since both sides should be happy to be accountable for their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, mardigras said: then things aren't a little bit tricky at all then? No ,the tricky bit is the anomaly I mentioned, though you don't see it as an anomaly. Lets just settle back and watch the shit fights . Should be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Globederby19 said: No ,the tricky bit is the anomaly I mentioned, though you don't see it as an anomaly. Lets just settle back and watch the shit fights . Should be fun. Fair enough - but what you refer to as an anomaly has been around for years - yet suddenly it seems important. Heaps of people pay extra premium for travel insurance based on events inflicted on them by others. Nothing unusual there. You call that tricky, the insurance companies call that the premium you have to pay - or go without. All due to the fact that someone else caused whatever condition you have that you are now paying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 40 minutes ago, Hesi said: I think it is going to be a difficult Summer for the country. Covid will spread out across NZ, how many cases per day, who knows, how many deaths, who knows. There will be apprehension initially. There are those in business that will rejoice, those that are resident in each area, maybe not so happy, there will be resentment towards Auckland? If the Herald headline today is anything to go by, the papers will feed on it, and sensationalise it. Northland and Coromandel, maybe a good idea to give it all a miss, till the dust settles. Plenty of nice beaches in or around Auckland Covid 19 Delta outbreak: Northern iwi leaders condemn Auckland border call - 'you may as well send up body bags' FFS Hesi - it's already spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, mardigras said: FFS Hesi - it's already spread. No, I mean spread, there are just a handful of cases in a number of DHB's outside Auckland, wait till they are reporting 100 plus in Northland and Coromandel, once all those nasty Aucklanders come calling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, barryb said: Go outside Hesi, blood moon is up, quite spectacular. I know, I made a special point of writing it down on a pad in front of me, so i don't get distracted talking to you clowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, barryb said: I think you are wrong Hesi, NSW is a classic example of what we can expect or hope for, virus under control and a semblance of normality. However unvaccinated people are going to have a hell of a time, restricted movement, ostracised, marginalised, unemployed. I hope you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hesi said: No, I mean spread, there are just a handful of cases in a number of DHB's outside Auckland, wait till they are reporting 100 plus in Northland and Coromandel, once all those nasty Aucklanders come calling How many cases did Auckland have at the start of lockdown level 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, mardigras said: How many cases did Auckland have at the start of lockdown level 4? Can't remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, barryb said: Clowns? Term of endearment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Hesi said: Can't remember I think it was 1 or thereabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Austria have made vaccinations for adult population mandatory (with exceptions). A big step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 54 minutes ago, mardigras said: I think it was 1 or thereabouts. It was 1 yes. The bloke who traveled to Coromandel and managed not to infect anyone (how did that happen?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, mardigras said: Austria have made vaccinations for adult population mandatory (with exceptions). A big step. Also imposing another lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 hour ago, mardigras said: I think it was 1 or thereabouts. That's right, the first Delta case, Aug 15. During June/July people were getting appointment letters to go and get their vax. It all got quite serious then, I recall the wait time to book a vax after that went up from 2 weeks to 5 weeks, then the drive in centres happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I'm not sure how this will all play out. Places like Austria and Germany, to name but a few countries are re-imposing sanctions, but then they opened up at low vax rates It is Winter in Europe, so that must be contributing to the resurgence But Singapore, also getting a big resurgence, and it still stays pretty hot there, and they had high vax rates when they opened up Gibraltar, claim to be 100% vaxxed, yet they are having to introduce new sanctions due to a resurgence of cases Hard to figure out what is happening, also the question of waning immunity?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I think you have to accept people are going to die. Set a strategy and go with it. In NZ, the strategy appears to be the vaccine. Whether it proves successful or not isn't an issue yet. You have to move forward and test the strategy out. So far, the strategy is untested here. If they actually test the strategy and it fails, then you would have a fall back plan. Running a bunch of ideas concurrently doesn't allow your main plan to be tested properly leaving you in a position of never knowing when you can go with your main strategy - which is what is happening. The government can't say when things will change or what the actual criteria is that constitutes a move from one colour to the next. Simply because they don't have any test results of their principal strategy (probably waiting for as much info as other countries can provide). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, barryb said: To be fair Mardi to the Govt, I think rigourous testing and masks are very high on the list of strategies as well. Yes, but I'm largely referring to the strategy around exiting lockdowns and border controls. Even if they continue with those other aspects, they have often said that if you want life to return to some form of normality, get vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 18 hours ago, Hesi said: Term of endearment . Didn't realise there was any "Love" involved in our relationship Allan.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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