Hesi Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, barryb said: About the same % as those not fully vaccinated Hesi, 15% I don't think there is a link though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Show Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Hesi said: I don't think there is a link though No, there isn't a link. Religion has little to do with vacc choice. Much of vacc choice comes from a sense of self worth, striving for independence, lack of motivation and the "she'll be right". There are very few religions that dictate to not getting vaccinated, it is more related to "they can't tell us what to do".. or leaders that want to impart their beliefs on what others should think, that is not religion, that is dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Show Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, barryb said: DS, you bought into all the bullshit hook line and sinker, you are using deaths as the measure of success. We could have had low deaths, a much faster roll out, not needed a 100 day lockdown if they hadn’t been asleep at the wheel. They knew Delta was coming and did nothing urgently till the shit hit the fan. We cruised for 12 months thinking it was defeated. Where we’re the hospitals gearing up, plans in place to handle rising numbers, apps ready to go, vaccine roll outs at a quick pace etc. As it happens luck again is going to shine on them as late min mega vaccine roll outs are saving other countries arses like Aus and Japan, we might just escape the worst like them. Barry, I'm not buying into anything, I'm a data freak, I analyse things 🙂 We couldn't have had a faster roll out , firstly because the vaccines weren't here, due to our distance and our dictated to position in the order of send out byPfizer. Do you really think that saying to everyone Delta is coming would have got everyone in NZ off their lazy asses to get a vacc sooner? No of course not, that is the problem with NZ, not many react until it is hitting home. It's easy to blame the government but I think many NZers need to look closer to home and take responsibility for their slack action. The government didn't cruise, NZers cruised.. when the vacc got here they called for the most vulnerable.. we moved like tortoises.. and not due to lack of comms, no-one was worried, why would it get here.. the casual NZ response.. well here we have it. Of course a booster is needed. I have research collaborators in the UK that now have Covid and they got vaccinated 9 months ago. Yes there is another wave and that is why our Vacc Certs only go to May next year. The benefit is that we are ahead of the game and can get a booster hopefully before we get another wave of it coming through here. Japan had a hell of time a couple of months ago, do you really think it will remain that way if they open everything and don't get boosters? Data says not, they may think they have limited the evolution there due to shut borders, but as soon as you open them, you let in what has been happening in other countries, so if you aren't ahead of it.. you lose. We are ahead of it, so you see our Delta numbers are down, but we have to keep doing that, otherwise we won't work through this. NZers travel a lot, within our country, a lot more than many other countries do for our population and we travel to the more populated areas, be it personally, logistics, freight, sport etc. so if it gains an upper hand here, it will spread very quickly as everyone goes home. That is our major concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Show Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, barryb said: You mean like the Govt making Vaccines pretty much compulsory? or you will get ostracised and excluded from society. Barry you do love your generalisations. You act like this is the only government in the world doing this 🙂 Not excluded from society, but from places where you could catch and suffer serious outcomes from the virus if you are not vaccinated. Those that are not vaccinated are more susceptible than those that are. Anyone can carry it and I'm sure that many that are vaccinated will be carrying it in the months to come, but if you get it, and you are not vaccinated, you are likely to suffer the symptoms a lot more than someone that is vaccinated and more likely to pass it to others in your family that are not vaccinated or are in a situation where they can't be vaccinated. It is always a play on numbers, you can't do what the majority would enjoy much of the time, because of the minority that could possibly become a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Dancing Show said: Not excluded from society, but from places where you could catch and suffer serious outcomes from the virus if you are not vaccinated. Those that are not vaccinated are more susceptible than those that are. Anyone can carry it and I'm sure that many that are vaccinated will be carrying it in the months to come, but if you get it, and you are not vaccinated, you are likely to suffer the symptoms a lot more than someone that is vaccinated and more likely to pass it to others in your family that are not vaccinated or are in a situation where they can't be vaccinated. Surely that's their choice. Just like vulnerable can go out and about when the flu is around - and they are not vaccinated. And the flu can kill. Why are they letting unvaccinated people go to places like that when a more severe strain of the flu is around. Just like obese people with high blood pressure and diabetes, can go down to McDonalds and KFC every day. Why is the government allowing that to happen? Surely they would get these places to check their customers health records before allowing them in. These people make their choices, they live (or die) by the consequences. Cardiovascular diseases kill massively more people than Covid ever will. If the government doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with that, maybe they could have at least started an initiative to bring about change there. Well they've done that, with a thousand+ medical staff now jobless - funny that when you think we might supposedly need those staff. Last year during the first lockdown, the government had a totally free hit in locking down and learning things - and enacting things. What did they do, sfa. And I'm not even a little bit complacent about whether Covid deaths could have been massively higher. We are inept at making people accountable. And on another note, I'm not anti Labour. I'm anti stupid policy whether it comes from Labour or National (or whoever). The Vaccine mandate is a stupid idea. And on the subject of data - most people that know me would call me a data freak. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, mardigras said: Surely that's their choice. Just like vulnerable can go out and about when the flu is around - and they are not vaccinated. And the flu can kill. Why are they letting unvaccinated people go to places like that when a more severe strain of the flu is around. Just like obese people with high blood pressure and diabetes, can go down to McDonalds and KFC every day. Why is the government allowing that to happen? Surely they would get these places to check their customers health records before allowing them in. These people make their choices, they live (or die) by the consequences. Cardiovascular diseases kill massively more people than Covid ever will. If the government doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with that, maybe they could have at least started an initiative to bring about change there. Well they've done that, with a thousand+ medical staff now jobless - funny that when you think we might supposedly need those staff. Last year during the first lockdown, the government had a totally free hit in locking down and learning things - and enacting things. What did they do, sfa. And I'm not even a little bit complacent about whether Covid deaths could have been massively higher. We are inept at making people accountable. And on another note, I'm not anti Labour. I'm anti stupid policy whether it comes from Labour or National (or whoever). The Vaccine mandate is a stupid idea. And on the subject of data - most people that know me would call me a data freak. A SQL DBA wasn't it Marty? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, pete said: A SQL DBA wasn't it Marty? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Can I add that to my CV? 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Not wanting to get involved in political talk BUT that Bridges comment lol. His mouth has been getting him in all sorts of bother. Such and such is useless, stoke it baby stoke it. Oh dear 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 58 minutes ago, barryb said: Was just a throw away Pete, I get very fatiqued by these staunch Labourites whom cant see Cindy or the mob do anything wrong. Mardi summed it up beautifully above & is bang on. The fact that I am cricising the govts handling of it doesnt mean that I think the Nats would have done better as I very much doubt it, they are a muffed up mess, but with a clear dircetion it wont take them long to get a head of steam up agains't an inept bunch running the show right now. 4 years plus later, and we are still waiting, which is not good, as the country needs a strong opposition, and they have been woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hesi said: Well it seems the country has a problem then. The current govt is woeful and the opposition is woeful lol I think you have just summed up politics/governments generally. Luckily, most of the time their decisions can be managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 The alternative of course is anarchy, which I suspect is what a percentage of the people protesting would like to see. Most definitely groups that rule by fear and physical strength, or would like to see the overthrow of the current system that have infiltrated from America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Hesi said: The alternative of course is anarchy, which I suspect is what a percentage of the people protesting would like to see. Most definitely groups that rule by fear and physical strength, or would like to see the overthrow of the current system that have infiltrated from America. The alternative to what? Just because that is typical of politicians, doesn't mean we shouldn't have in place elected rule makers. The idea is they do the least damage possible whilst maintaining/improving a properly functioning society. Edited November 25, 2021 by mardigras 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesi Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 1 hour ago, mardigras said: The alternative to what? Just because that is typical of politicians, doesn't mean we shouldn't have in place elected rule makers. The idea is they do the least damage possible whilst maintaining/improving a properly functioning society. It comes down to people's interpretation of a properly functioning society. I'm sure Barry, Pete and Maxi's view, would differ from Maria(Dancing Show) and Craigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Hesi said: It comes down to people's interpretation of a properly functioning society. I'm sure Barry, Pete and Maxi's view, would differ from Maria(Dancing Show) and Craigs Possibly - although in most years, I don't see the government changing the way NZ society works too much. The last two years being an exception. If society is subjected to major changes by government, you'd be likely to get greater upheaval. That is what we are now seeing, and possibly would have had it irrespective of governing party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 (edited) Yep, it's pretty shocking. That's precisely why they aren't prepared to make each person accountable - because they want everyone to bear the cost of that lack of accountability. Socialism - the driving force to mediocrity. Edited November 26, 2021 by mardigras 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 I won't be commenting any further in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 11/25/2021 at 9:32 PM, barryb said: No one goes anymore Globe because it hasn’t kept pace with change or science. Like I said , an atheists view, and so entrenched its a waste of time arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globederby19 Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 11/26/2021 at 3:36 PM, pete said: I won't be commenting any further in this thread. Come and join me for tea Pete. I see an insidious division happening on here which even I am part of and it should stop for the betterment of this site. Why don't we all just shove our views up our fundamental orifice and get on with life. 🍷 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) Now, now, peeps...robust discussion is a good thing, no need to 'stop commenting" or "shove anything up one's fundamental orifice" on account of different points of view. Vive la difference. Max is of the atheistic centre-right persuasion who really just wants everyone to get along and the State to have minimal interference in one's life and lifestyle. Max wants the State to be tough on violent crime, encourage achievement and a strong work ethic, pour money into long-overdue infrastructure and pay fairly the people who teach, care for the sick and elderly, and police our democratic-loving society. MM Edited November 28, 2021 by Maximus 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 I think the issue is that the government is no longer having that minimal impact on people's lives. I am not a supporter of many of the anti-vax proponents in regards things like the vaccine is a poison and all the other rather wacky claims. But I am a complete supporter that the vaccine certificates and segregation of people by way of vaccination status is a huge mistake and an overly aggressive stance by the government on the people. It simply isn't necessary. I'd love to see a study that validates the use of a vaccination passport/certificate as a way of managing this virus. All it does is alienate/segregate people that should otherwise not care. It had to be a choice thing - but the government is too stupid to see that. As sad as it is, if new variants arrive whereby the vaccine doesn't appear to reduce the major health risks to those that are infected, what will be the government's new plan - lock everyone up again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VC! Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Will the fully vaccinated soon become the unvaccinated, will those whom have lost their employment be reinstated, oh where does it farkin end! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, VC! said: Will the fully vaccinated soon become the unvaccinated, will those whom have lost their employment be reinstated, oh where does it farkin end! Yep, a poorly thought out plan. That only served the purpose of pissing many people off and dividing the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, VC! said: Will the fully vaccinated soon become the unvaccinated, will those whom have lost their employment be reinstated, oh where does it farkin end! yes, that has bugged me for a while too. With no other tools in the kit apart from mass vaccination, and segregating those who choose otherwise, it was a no-brainer that another variant would arrive sooner rather than later...and more to come I am sure. As Mardi has pointed out, cardiovascular disease has killed many year after year, not to mention diabetes, good ol' influenza and diseases of civilization - dementia in all its forms, Parkinson's, cancers....don't we just have to live with all this? How long can we keep on printing money and locking up people? Edited November 29, 2021 by Freda 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrotsishere Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Off to get my booster, my booster my booster my booster. Cant believe 6 months has past already. Giving the peeps the tip, I still alive. Hope don't get side effects like how got from the 2nd shot, but anyway. Here we go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 1 hour ago, karrotsishere said: Off to get my booster, my booster my booster my booster. Cant believe 6 months has past already. Giving the peeps the tip, I still alive. Hope don't get side effects like how got from the 2nd shot, but anyway. Here we go. what were the side effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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