All things Covid and Political discussion .........Be Kind

[mardigras]

What I really like about the protests going on is the view that the government is like a dictatorship and taking away people's freedoms.

So they undertake protests affecting the freedoms of many others.

Not the most intelligent bunch - use the very same strategy that they are protesting against. I guess it's OK to take away people's freedoms as long as you do it for a 'good' cause.

[pete]

Credit where it's due, even though it's very late being released I just managed to download my vaccine pass onto my phone.

Pretty painless really.

When do I get to use it?

[Hesi]

Site capacity is 200/second which equals 720,000/hour, yet still crashed!

[pete]

This should surprise no one. From the UK Telegraph.

"

Nearly 10,000 more people than usual have died in the past four months from non-Covid reasons, as experts called for an urgent government inquiry into whether the deaths were preventable.

Fears are growing that NHS delays at the height of the pandemic left large numbers of people with previously treatable conditions suffering illnesses that have now become fatal. "

[Hesi]

Driving this avo and had Newstalk ZB on.  Never stays on long as too much negativity

An ICU doctor rang up just before 2 pm, said that in the recent outbreaks in NSW and Victoria, ICU was at 100% capacity.

Also amongst the profession, there is concern in NZ, that even at 90% vax rates, the health system will not cope, as it is effectively a 75% rate, because of the under 12's, and that overseas experience was that Delta had become a lot more prevalent in that age group.

[pete]

4 minutes ago, Hesi said:

Driving this avo and had Newstalk ZB on.  Never stays on long as too much negativity

An ICU doctor rang up just before 2 pm, said that in the recent outbreaks in NSW and Victoria, ICU was at 100% capacity.

Also amongst the profession, there is concern in NZ, that even at 90% vax rates, the health system will not cope, as it is effectively a 75% rate, because of the under 12's, and that overseas experience was that Delta had become a lot more prevalent in that age group.

Is the last bit about under 12s hearsay or fact?

Just asking because it's so easy to chuck this stuff around without corroboration. I'm talking about the person who said it, not you.

[pete]

This article tends to take the view that it is very uncommon  for it to be serious in under 12s so I think the people you were listening to were being alarmist.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-delta-outbreak-how-children-are-faring-against-variant/HZDWRSNPA6WTYYDNZGT3P73WPI/

[Hesi]

Just now, pete said:

Is the last bit about under 12s hearsay or fact?

Just asking because it's so easy to chuck this stuff around without corroboration. I'm talking about the person who said it, not you.

Well he sounded quite reasoned and normal, and he is in a profession where these things as discussed.  Other than that can't comment further.

He did comment that Germany and Netherlands are in their 4th wave, which was accurate

[Hesi]

2 minutes ago, pete said:

This article tends to take the view that it is very uncommon  for it to be serious in under 12s so I think the people you were listening to were being alarmist.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-delta-outbreak-how-children-are-faring-against-variant/HZDWRSNPA6WTYYDNZGT3P73WPI/

That article is 2 months old Pete

[pete]

4 minutes ago, Hesi said:

That article is 2 months old Pete

That's not the point. Are you really telling me that under 12s are suddenly getting seriously ill or just saying that a lot of them are catching it?

Sources please...

[pete]

The point is that if under 12s are very unlikely to be seriously affected then it makes sense not to include them in the percentages.

[Hesi]

I think they are still learning about what impact Delta has on the under 12 age group.

This ICU specialist was quite specific that the experience overseas was it was becoming more prevalent.  I don't think he would have any reason for being alarmist, other than from a professional viewpoint concerning the impact on our health system

[pete]

3 minutes ago, Hesi said:

I think they are still learning about what impact Delta has on the under 12 age group.

This ICU specialist was quite specific that the experience overseas was it was becoming more prevalent.  I don't think he would have any reason for being alarmist, other than from a professional viewpoint concerning the impact on our health system

I'm not disputing prevalent.

Never mind.

[Globederby19]

7 minutes ago, pete said:

Never mind.

You are catching on, finally.👍

[Hesi]

Here it is, have a listen and see what you think

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-demand/week-on-demand?region=christchurch

[Maximus]

On 11/15/2021 at 5:41 AM, Freda said:

Stop calling us loons..I know some very good people in the Sth Island....

and even if you are vaccinated like good buys barryb and Max et al, you're still at risk. but the risk is lower and the severity likely to be lower if double-jabbed and a booster.. As Proof Jackson rightly said, you will develop immunity either the easy way or the hard way. Every individual has a choice, including the lowlifes who deliberately break the lockdown rules and don't give a toss...the same kind of people who manipulate the fear this thing brings to the folks who are easily scared and/or vulnerable (eg members of religious outfits like the AoG and I daresay JWs and Destiny Church and...and the list is endless).

MM

[Hesi]

1 minute ago, Hesi said:

Here it is, have a listen and see what you think

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-demand/week-on-demand?region=christchurch

It is about 5 mins on from clicking on 13.45

[Dancing Show]

As at this time last week there were over 3 million under 12s with COVID in the USA and this has been on the rise probably due to a number of reasons including; family members and themselves not vaccinated so an easy target for the virus, the virus is evolving and starting to find and survive in younger hosts, and the winter months mean closed windows and doors in classrooms.  Children interact with a larger number of people over a day, in confined areas and in close contact, especially younger school kids.   Currently young children are more likely to assist in spreading rather than suffer from the symptoms to any great extent, however the unknown is whether it will stay that way or whether the virus will evolve into another variant that could be more harmful to them.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254271/us-total-number-of-covid-cases-by-age-group/

The US is ahead of us in the various stages of the COVID cycle, but I think what some modelers are referring to is the fact that statistics show that the virus is becoming more prevalent in younger children.     At the moment the virus is strong enough to hospitalise or kill those with pre existing illnesses and the elderly that do not have strong immunity.  We have seen the middle aged and 20/30 somethings become more susceptible to Delta symptoms, and if the virus continues to gather strength and more children catch COVID, then it is feasible that some young teens and children may also need hospitalisation in the future, purely due to the numbers and likelihood that a percentage of those will be ill enough to require additional medical assistance.  Note that it is all may/may not, could, is possible   ...   so as always when looking at future models you can only go off current data, current trends, contributing factors and likely outcomes etc. and in our case it is also looking at what has happened in other countries that are ahead of us on the curve.

What NZ does have in its favour, versus the USA, UK and some other countries being monitored, is our number of vaccinated teens and adults coupled with fewer number of cases in the community, the fact that Summer is approaching, and School holidays are just around the corner, which all together will hopefully limit, and weaken the transmission to young children in the foreseeable future.

 

[Hesi]

In NZ in the Delta outbreak to 2/11, 3634 cases, 729 of which were 12 under

Hospitalisations, over 12 - 189, 12 under - 12

[mardigras]

The vaccine mandate is a stupid idea imo. 

This is a good example of where the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff is better than keeping people from falling off the edge.

The issue NZ has is they don't have enough ambulances and have done nothing to increase the numbers.

They spend massive amounts on support, but not instigating programs to provide long term benefits to the country (the ambulances and those that are required to run the ambulances). This isn't just a problem of this government, it has been going on for many many years.

The easy answer was as I mentioned previously. Set a date when things are going to be opened completely. That date is to give people that want the vaccine, time to get it. No questions even asked of people as to their status or views, no reporting of vaccination percentages. Promote the vaccine, sure. But not to an extent that it has been done. And no recriminations about whether you get it or don't get it. No variation to rights post the opening date, no vaccine mandates. Back in June - they could have said something like, 1 October is opening date. End of story.

Then set a user pays schedule around those parts of the health system that would potentially be overloaded. And let things play out.

Would have saved a large amount of infighting in the country which is segregating people based on this.

Might sound harsh, but not a lot harsher than what is happening internally anyway.

[craigos1]

Mardi I tend to disagree with you on this.

I have nothing to argue against what your saying but I have four Christmas Functions to attend in Dunedin.

Now I know there is nothing here yet but 21st December ..I'm going to Salt , Next day 1908 Cafe, Glenfalloch and 24th (birthday) Market Kitchen.

My point is at those dates everyone can travel.

Those restaurants are all top end on Trip Advisor. So that's where visitors go also

Pretty much Delta is Coming to a town near you!

I know I'll be doing the right thing but am concerned ................. mainly because until 2 years ago I was 30 cigarettes a day.

Started 16 will be 54 Christmas Eve so basically my lungs are toast!! Vape at present.

So double vaxxed or not I realise my useless behaviour in earlier times may come and bite me in the arse!!

[mardigras]

8 hours ago, craigos1 said:

Mardi I tend to disagree with you on this.

I have nothing to argue against what your saying but I have four Christmas Functions to attend in Dunedin.

Now I know there is nothing here yet but 21st December ..I'm going to Salt , Next day 1908 Cafe, Glenfalloch and 24th (birthday) Market Kitchen.

My point is at those dates everyone can travel.

Those restaurants are all top end on Trip Advisor. So that's where visitors go also

Pretty much Delta is Coming to a town near you!

I know I'll be doing the right thing but am concerned ................. mainly because until 2 years ago I was 30 cigarettes a day.

Started 16 will be 54 Christmas Eve so basically my lungs are toast!! Vape at present.

So double vaxxed or not I realise my useless behaviour in earlier times may come and bite me in the arse!!

That's the issue, the virus is coming anyway. Mandates don't change anything except alienate those that don't necessarily want the vaccine. Young people aren't being vaccinated, they will be at things like restaurants. All unvaccinated, all able to spread the virus. That's likely around 20-25% of the population.

You would get a high level of vaccination by promoting it properly - and without antagonising and victimising those that don't want to get it. Pushing to get the last 2 or 3% is rather futile and highly divisive.

The mandates are going to do very little to reduce your potential exposure to the virus.

[Hesi]

2 hours ago, mardigras said:

That's the issue, the virus is coming anyway. Mandates don't change anything except alienate those that don't necessarily want the vaccine. Young people aren't being vaccinated, they will be at things like restaurants. All unvaccinated, all able to spread the virus. That's likely around 20-25% of the population.

You would get a high level of vaccination by promoting it properly - and without antagonising and victimising those that don't want to get it. Pushing to get the last 2 or 3% is rather futile and highly divisive.

The mandates are going to do very little to reduce your potential exposure to the virus.

Aren't vaccine passports being mandated for all close contact businesses, such as restaurants, hairdressers and gyms, plus events etc

[mardigras]

1 hour ago, Hesi said:

Aren't vaccine passports being mandated for all close contact businesses, such as restaurants, hairdressers and gyms, plus events etc

I don't think the vaccination restrictions include under 12s. If they do, then that defies logic since they can go to school, and can't yet eligible for vaccination.

That's 20 - 25% of the population. Able to leave Auckland when in Red. 

From stuff.co.nz following Ardern press conference.

"Vaccine certificates for domestic use are set to become available this month. The Ministry of Health said children under 12 years and 3 months will be exempt from having to show proof of vaccination."

Edited November 18, 2021 by mardigras

[Globederby19]

9 hours ago, mardigras said:

All unvaccinated, all able to spread the virus.

This is where it gets tricky with the user pays system . From memory a gentleman in Wgtn (double vac) has contracted Covid. Now if he is sick enough to be hospitalised then he will get free treatment. If he sheds the virus to anyone else ( and the viral load is just as big in  vacc as it is in unvacc) and that person is unvaccinated then they are penalised , theoretically. Doesn't make sense to me. In ,as I have stated before in an egalitarian society, we look after all our citizens. Now we know there are parts of Society that abuse their bodys ( drugs ,Alcohol etc)wilfully, and expect to be looked after when it turns to custard. This type of scenario would need monitoring, as it impinges on our basic rights as Human beings.